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October 2, 2009
Right of Entry
We have 6 months left in our lease and our landlord has decided to sell. He is talking about having open houses and giving the listing agent access to our unit. We have a standard condo rental agreement, so we understand that he can come at reasonable hours to show the unit. Do we have the right to ask for/expect notice prior to people arriving? Do we have to allow our apartment to be available for multiple hours on multiple weekends for open houses for the next 6 months? I could understand if we didn't resign our lease and this was going to happen for the 30 to 60 days prior to the end of our lease, but 6 months seems a bit much. The section in the lease that allowed 30 days notice for the sale of the unit was removed and agreed upon at the beginning of the lease, so we are able to stay in the unit until the end of the lease. What are our rights/expectations in this situation?
Comments
I'm not sure about legally, but reasonably, it seems that you can set certain limitations on access and open houses. Speak to the landlord and if possible, the listing agent and let them know that you'd like to limit access for appointments to between 10-4, with advanced notification. As for open houses, I'd be less flexible. I might not agree to any open houses at all, or perhaps limit them to one or two, whatever makes you feel comfortable. When I've been the one visiting open houses, a tenant's apartment has been accessible on a few occasions, but more often than not, we were told that if we were "really interested, to call back and make an appointment to view the tenant apartment."
Posted by: tiptoe at October 2, 2009 10:11 AM
Tiptoe's right. I'm a landlord and no way would I expect my tenants to have an open house at my convenience. Not sure of legal situation, but it's a tad impolite to expect the unsupervised access of your space via open house. A little notice when posisble also reasonable. Good luck!
Posted by: Johnny at October 2, 2009 10:58 AM
Thanks. What about allowing pictures of the unit with our belongings in it to be posted on the realtors' web site? Do we have to allow it?
Posted by: MarshallPS at October 2, 2009 11:30 AM
This sounds like a tough situation. He's selling just your condo right? Your unit is not an apartment in a larger house?
Posted by: setancre at October 2, 2009 11:49 AM
He is selling just our condo. There are multiple condos in the building. He owns only this one.
Posted by: MarshallPS at October 2, 2009 11:56 AM
If he holds open houses, request him to pay for renters insurance and also ask for $$ compensation for the time during which he's holding your place hostage.
Posted by: Stonergut at October 2, 2009 12:11 PM
Regarding open houses, there's a security issue there not just a question of convenience. It's one thing to allow the realtor to give private showings to people who are serious buyers whose contact information they already have, it's another to throw open the doors to the public and the looky-loos. It's impossible for the realtor to always keep an eye on everybody. I'd never allow it as a tenant. And if the owner insisted on open houses I would insist on being there to look out after my stuff.
Posted by: traditionalmod at October 2, 2009 12:17 PM
I'm not sure about your rights in that case. I would probably consult a lawyer because unless this sitation is spelled out in your lease, there is going to be a lot of gray area and you will probably need to be aggressive to protect your right to quiet enjoyment of the home.
A lawyer could help you understand what you can expect and a letter from a lawyer would let your landlord know that you mean business and don't plan on being constantly inconvenienced. Obviously it is in the landlord's best interest to show the apartment as much as possible in order sell before the lease is up in 6 months, after which point he'll probably start to lose rent money on his investment. What's best for him with regards to selling the apartment, in this case, is completely at odds with what's best for you.
Posted by: setancre at October 2, 2009 12:22 PM
That seems pretty rude. Is he offering you the option to end the lease early so he can sell? It seems like quite an imposition. Definitely no open house and 24 hour notice prior to visits.
Posted by: Maly at October 2, 2009 12:28 PM
You have some leverage too, if the landlord is being unreasonable then go ahead and let him show the apartment but feel free to leave the place a mess so it shows poorly
Posted by: sweetlou at October 2, 2009 12:31 PM
You have more control than you think. You can make things very difficult for your landlord ie. leaving something special in the toilet before the showings. This is of course if he doesn't want to reason with you. It's all a compromise. If you don't give accesss he'll be a pain in the ass for the next six months, if you do give access it should be within reason. If anything were to happen to your stuff sueing the landlord will hold up any sale so he doesn't want that. The 6 months is reasonable only because it can take that long to sell in this market....I would come to an agreement of a window each week they can bring prosepective buyers through, this way you can have control and not expect any random calls to show spur of the moment.
Posted by: IrieMan at October 2, 2009 12:34 PM
I'm a LL and I would always show consideration for my tenants and their schedules when showing an apartment. I'm not sure what the legalities are but common sense and decency should prevail.
Posted by: henrycurtis at October 2, 2009 12:36 PM
Before moving forward with a letter from an attorney I would schedule a sit down with the owner to address some of your concerns about the situation, especially the security issue. There is no reason to begin discussions in a threatening manner - save them as a last resort.
The landlord more than likely has the legal right to enter the apartment given advanced notice - so you don't want to start a fight you can not win. That said, I know of similar situations where the tenant/landlord relationship soured and believe me, you can make it very difficult for the place to sell by pointing out all the negatives of the unit.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at October 2, 2009 12:46 PM
A standard form lease gives the landlord the right to enter the apartment to make repairs and sometimes to do an inspection. The standard form lease allows the apartment to be shown 30-60 days before the lease expires. Reasonable notice is a couple of hours not 24-48. An open house may or may not be allowed. If both parties sit down and are reasonable they should both be able to work this out. The landlord is not giving you a renewal anyway. What he can do? By the time a court hears his case months will have gone by. be reasonable give him a call and tell him you want to work out a reasonable accommodation. If he wants to have an open house all day he should buy you dinner.
Posted by: smeyer418 at October 2, 2009 12:56 PM
lol this reminds me of an open house i had to endure while living in in an apartment in chelsea a while back. a picture of my dog wound up on craigslist like immediately after the 3 hour open house, multiple listings from a ton of brokers who came even tho it was stated for rent by OWNER ONLY! he was in london though, so me and my ex hosted the open house for him to be nice. well hundreds and hundreds of people came in and out :-/ snapping pictures, RUDE as hell brokers showed up, some showed up with clients already in tow!!!! we kept saying to the people who showed up with brokers this is BY OWNER only!! what a nightmare.
anyway, yeah if youre stuff is in there, limit open house. we had to hide so much valuable stuff before the open house and youd be SHOCKED by how many people feel they can just touch your belongings!
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 2, 2009 12:56 PM
Definitely sit down and discuss some reasonable parameters with your landlord. Bottom line: your landlord has the legal right to show your apartment to prospective buyers, and that includes open houses. The right of entry is guaranteed to the owner in any standard lease, and most likely the one you signed. The advice here to make it difficult for the landlord is stupid b/c it is a two way street and nastiness will get you nowhere.
Posted by: raphael9 at October 2, 2009 12:56 PM
raphael9, the standard form lease does not give the landlord an unlimited right of entry to show the apartment. please look at a copy of the standard form lease.
Also it seems to me that this tenant negotiated a lease in their favor(removing the right to end the lease upon 30 days notice of sale) so I assume they knew what they are doing.
The tenant has possession and is entitled to enjoy that peaceably. the landlord can't force their way in and does so at their peril. NY Juries have given apartments to the tenant when landlords abuse their limited rights.
Posted by: smeyer418 at October 2, 2009 1:41 PM
I didn't say unlimited right of access. Go and read the first page of every lease...it's right there. Tenant must provide access at reasonable time for apartment to be shown to prospective buyers, etc. including repair people, insurance agents, etc.
Posted by: raphael9 at October 2, 2009 2:16 PM
http://www.tregny.com/pdf/standard_rental.pdf
standard form Bloomberg lease form(not that Bloomberg another one)
There is nothing in the lease about open houses. That is not to show to specific person but anyone who walks in and you have to lock down your apartment---as it is a time when things walk off.
Posted by: smeyer418 at October 2, 2009 3:03 PM
It's actually this one. It's the standard condo lease. See section 11.
http://www.tregny.com/pdf/condo_lease.pdf
Posted by: MarshallPS at October 2, 2009 3:31 PM
FYI - Blumberg not Bloomberg
Posted by: WrathOfGates at October 2, 2009 5:29 PM
As a Realtor, former property manager and current renter I can see this situation from different perspectives. The lease is fairly vague on how often and in what circumstance your unit can be viewed (ie by appt or open house), as well as not requirement a specific notice period before entry. It does of course behoove your landlord to keep you happy as you can have a profoud impact on the "showability" of his condo. However, there is no point in being difficult just for the sake of it, for example insisting on being present for the open house when all that does is make it very difficult for the Realtor to do his/her job and get the unit sold quickly.
My suggestion is definitely to speak to the landlord and work out something that is reasonable for both of you. Personally as a renter I would prefer showings only by open house. And there is such a thing as open house by appt, where you don't simply have people walking in off the street. If he/she is unwilling to accept your right to enjoy the unit then, again as a renter, I would probably go ahead and make their life as a seller a bit more difficult ;)
Posted by: ABSinBayRidge at October 4, 2009 5:46 PM
raphael9: bottom line renter can stop paying rent (because LL entered apt without advance notice and something went missing). Renter can screw up apartment. He can make it extremely difficult to present apartment for prospective buyers. i.e. leave medical syringes or bedbug spray in the middle of the room. on the other side LL has little leverage here.
Posted by: bobjohn at October 4, 2009 5:50 PM
I went through this about a year and a half ago (as a tenant).
The bottom line is that almost all leases (and NYS law) indicate that you have to give reasonable access, but you also have a right to privacy. Courts are somewhat vague about what "reasonble" means, but in non-emergency situations typically it means more than 24 hours notice, and it can't be a constant daily or near daily occurence.
In my case, I had to threaten the real estate agent's license, because they wouldn't back down otherwise. The owner wasn't interested in discussing it and just referred us to the agent. After being threatened we settled on once a week showings.
We also insisted on being present, which is always your right (again, in non-emergency situations). Never trust a real estate agent to watch people, they almost never do - typically they want to give people space to poke around on their own, and there are many documented cases of people having stuff stolen during real estate walk throughs, open house or not.
Posted by: northridger at October 5, 2009 10:24 AM
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