Forum
« Kagan Style Oval Table $500 OBO Mortgage broker recommendation »
October 26, 2009
Rent to a Pianist - Crazy?
I have a prospective tenant for my top floor rental - a jazz pianist who plays at one of the swanky Manhattan hotels. She has a baby grand piano she would move in. The piano is set on top of carpet and she swears that she has never had a noise complaint from other tenants in her current building. She only practices in the apartment from 11-3 in the afternoons. Am I crazy for even considering this?? I'm only talking about noise at this point, sometimes I can hear people walking on the floor below me (vibration) so why am I even considering this tenant? Maybe b/c the sound of jazzy piano played well would not be so bad. What do you think?
Comments
I'd put it in writing, as a lease rider, that the piano must be standing on an area rug/carpet and that the times for playing are restricted to 11-3. Noise complaints after 3pm will result in $25 fines (or some such nominal consequence), etc, etc, etc....
Having a piano wouldn't necessarily tun me off from a tenant, but I would make it clear and in writing what the expectations were in regards to the noise level in the building.
Posted by: christopher at October 26, 2009 10:39 AM
LOL seriously are you asking this question?
big. fat.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
not only do you have to deal with the actual piano noise, but you will most likely be dealing with a drama queen.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 26, 2009 10:45 AM
also if you rent to him you will annoy SO many people around you in other apartments. no one wants to hear that kind of stuff. i can deal with loud music, screaming neighbors, but when it comes to things like piano playing, opera singers, BARF! and i think 99 percent of new yorkers agree with me.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 26, 2009 10:47 AM
haha, rob. actually, i met the tenant and she doesn't *seem* like a drama queen at all. and we are only talking 3 units here.
Posted by: AEPE at October 26, 2009 10:52 AM
"11-3 in the afternoons"
You mean, nap time! Nap time is sacred. Don't mess with nap time...
Posted by: northsloperenter at October 26, 2009 10:53 AM
when it comes to things like piano playing, opera singers, BARF! and i think 99 percent of new yorkers agree with me.
Nope! Professional musician here. We need to practice. If the pianist has a rug, and does all she promises, it will be no problem. I know plenty of working, professional musicians who make no less noise than your average stereo player, and the quality is likely to be better, too.
Rob likes to keep reminding us that we are in a city. This is part of city life - hearing musicians practice. I happen to think it's great, and part of what makes living here interesting - the variety of people who live and work in New York. Most of the ones I know are very aware that they could be disturbing people, and they bend over backwards to time their practicing to hours that most other people aren't home, or when their practicing doesn't interfere with most people's sleep patterns. Most professional musicians I know are superior tenants, because they are aware of noise. If she is spending the money and effort to move a piano, soundproof as much as is sanely possible for a small apartment, and abides by your rules, OP, I think you will find that they will be a great tenant.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at October 26, 2009 11:00 AM
I don't know. My uncle was a pianist and although I love the sound you can't imagine how much a piano resonates.
Our neighbor across the street plays the piano. He's in a typical row house and it's in the front parlor. Which is fully furnish with rugs and upholstery (It does make a big difference in the absorption of sound). Our bedroom across the way is in the front of the house. During the summer we'd fall asleep to the sounds of his ragtime and jazz lullaby's quite often.
We personally happened to like it but I'm sure of you polled others they'd have been none too pleased.
Proceed with caution!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at October 26, 2009 11:04 AM
DON'T DO IT!!! In her previous dwelling, she may not have received any noise complaints, but who knows how the sound will travel through your building??? I lived below people with a grand piano (which they purchased some time after moving in) and it was a nightmare, even though they played well and were nice people. The vibration, the volume, the way it affected my life were terrible. I eventually moved!! Seriously, DON'T DO IT. Any musician who can afford it has professional rehearsal space away from home. The pianist wouldn't be able to play her instrument anywhere but at home since it's not portable. Again, DON'T DO IT. Trust me that she won't restrict her playing only to 11-3 and that your other tenants will hate it no matter how good she is. Given how many people work at home these days, I can't imagine why you'd take the chance.
Posted by: billtubbyhouse at October 26, 2009 11:07 AM
MM!!!! i used to live under someone playing some kind of music. it didnt bother me. i was totally kidding in my original post! i thought it was obvious.
granted, if i was a landlord i wouldnt rent to a musician mostly for the fact that they are in general annoying, high maintenence, and probably cant afford the rent, but the music itself isnt bothersome. :)
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 26, 2009 11:13 AM
Hey Rob,
Don't you think that a bit more than 1 per cent New Yorkers might have a musical sense and would be able to make a difference between bar noise or whatever disrespectful conduct we have to put up with and somebody whose profession is a musical one? Playing between 11am and 3pm seems pretty normal and wise to me.
In any condo or co-op by laws, you will find a mention of musical activity.They usually don't permit practising between 10pm and 8am. As for the rest of the day, as long as carpets and other devices to contain excessive noise are installed, musical activity is accepted.
Posted by: milou at October 26, 2009 11:15 AM
honestly id rather hear bar noise than some wannabe classical musician playing at all hours of the day and night. and like someone else posted, they will NOT keep themselves to the allotted hours, because uh they dont have to since it's not illegal. granted hearing that is fine, and loud, etc etc. but for the most part, most tenants will HATE it. ugh id rather hear a crying baby than some person playing the violin.
*rob*
Posted by: Butterfly at October 26, 2009 11:21 AM
Bars respecting their hours of operation in backyards or terraces, etc...? Thanks for the news! You might be living in an amazing location, because I haven't had the chance to live near one of those places, I believe like more than 99 percent New yorkers!
Posted by: milou at October 26, 2009 11:32 AM
I lived next door to a couple of concert pianists for many years. I loved it when they practiced - even the same phrase over and over was a delight to me. However, their landlady - who started out great pals with the couple - grew sourer and sourer about their music.
So you never know. Sometimes it's like heaven and sometimes it's hell.
Posted by: Stonergut at October 26, 2009 12:09 PM
MM, why even bother.
Posted by: denton at October 26, 2009 1:11 PM
My sister in law is a piano teacher, and teaches out of her house. They recently relocated to NJ (I know, I know) but when they were living in NYC, she taught in her apartment all the time, and none of her neighbors even knew she was running a minimusic school. She had a baby grand, and also put it on a carpet; the noise just didn't travel.
I would think that a professional pianist would have less potential for noise complaints than a music teacher giving lessons to kids. Of course I guess it depends on what kind of building/floors, etc, but I don't think it would be crazy to rent to her.
Posted by: brooklynstyle at October 26, 2009 1:23 PM
I agree with Christopher, put everything in writing. You might also ask her to agree to meet with you after a month to discuss whether any other residents have complained about noise or vibration. If noise becomes a problem she should ensure that the lid of the piano is closed, and her particular model may have a practice pedal or a pedal that can be used to dampen the sound and vibration. Her practice times are 11 a.m. - 3 p.m., it is actually reasonable to make some noise at this time as opposed to 11 p.m. to 3 a.m. You might also consider the other occupant of the building and whether this is likely to bother them. If everyone else currently living in the building works outside their home, 9 - 5, they won't even be home to hear the music.
Posted by: bohuma at October 26, 2009 1:26 PM
Give the pianist a break. You could do much worse for tenants, like deadbeats or people who make noise late at night or pet owners. In addition to putting the piano on carpet, keeping the lid closed (and maybe with a cover) can make it unobtrusive.
Put whatever you need in the lease. And audition her at the hotel gig to see if you enjoy her playing.
Posted by: Bklnite at October 26, 2009 1:27 PM
Since we are on the topic, I am wondering what people think is reasonable to expect of a professional musician re: bending over backward.
We have a small piano at home (almost like a spinet). The piano stands on a rug. Our downstairs neighbors have 2 kids, ages 5 and 3, and the mom stays home with them, and practically at any given time it's a nap time for one of them. Or, so she claims, when she calls as soon as my husband starts playing. Oh, and the kids' bedtime is 7:30 pm, so no playing in the evening either. The kick is, he probably playing at most once per week; I am not even talking about regular practice for hours or giving lessons.
Now, I wonder at what point we should start ignoring the phone calls and banging on the floor. Additionally, any additional soundproofing suggestions that can be easily implemented?
Posted by: kensingtonka at October 26, 2009 1:45 PM
As someone who will reply with a Different angle
What floor is this piano being moved to?
Baby Grand Pianos are some of the HEAVIEST and cumerbersome things to move
(take it from me I worked for a moving company here in NY for years)
They require a lot of expertise and if this person is moving this piano up the narrow stairs to a 3rd floor walk up - GOOD FRIGGIN LUCK
many times these pianos have to be hoisted up which can damage all sorts of things (piano, bldg facade, roof,windows)
this is a big ol UGH - if she's a professional - she should pay $250 a month to rent some studio space in Sunset Park
Posted by: gemini10 at October 26, 2009 1:55 PM
LARGE MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS ARE NOT APARTMENT FRIENDLY!!!!!
If you want to play the piano, live in a house. The woman has 2 little kids, and she's telling you that it bothers her. Pianos are loud. Have you considered listening to her?
Posted by: slick at October 26, 2009 1:58 PM
kensa, seems you should try and speak directly to her and come up with a specific time you can play. If she's just a ball breaker then play anytime you like up to 10PM.
Posted by: denton at October 26, 2009 2:03 PM
Per your logic, neither are small kids. I was under assumption that when one decides to live in an apartment building in a city, they agree to accept a certain level of discomfort caused by living next to a large number of people. Her banging on the ceiling bothers me a lot.
FYI, so far we are listening to her, meaning stopping immediately when she calls or bangs on the ceiling. But...we have a right to enjoy some music in our home too between the hours of 8 am and 10 pm.
Posted by: kensingtonka at October 26, 2009 2:12 PM
The last two places I lived I could hear piano, and/or harpsichord practice and thought it was great.
Posted by: BHS at October 26, 2009 2:33 PM
Folks, are you guys serious? (Possibly) hearing jazz piano played by a pro is horrible? You'd rather listen to screaming children or parties or bar noise? For real? I hate to get old New Yorker on you guys, but first of all, this is a city. It's full of people of all kinds. That's what makes it great. Second of all, the arts being embedded throughout the city is part of what makes it unique. Unfortunately, too many musicians have been driven out of the city by insane costs. Music is a wonderful thing. Good grief. And yes, I've lived near musicians. I've been in apartments where I could hear a cellist, an opera singer, a flamenco guitarist...
Posted by: lucille at October 26, 2009 2:38 PM
kensingtonka,
Here's a thread from a pianist bulletin board. Check the post about fiberglass backed ceiling panels.
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/3/topic/003967/Number/0/site_id/1#import
If you try being reasonable and downstairs neighbors are not, then yes you have a right to music til 10pm, to hell with them.
Maybe the pianist looking for an apartment should check if there's anything here
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/realestate/03habi.html
Musicians Preferred
Posted by: Bklnite at October 26, 2009 2:43 PM
I totally agree with lucille. She's a Jazz pianist, not a heavy metal drummer (Wilco reference intentional). In renting to this pianist, you are helping to add beauty to the world that needs it. She sounds totally reasonable, and professional. And if she hasn't had problems in the past, as she says, if you trust her, rent to her.
I realize my comment may sound sappy, but whatev.
Posted by: noodlemanias at October 26, 2009 2:48 PM
I am often surprised how little sound carries in my apartment building. I crank my stereo up, go outside, and hear nothing.
11-3 in the daytime seems perfectly reasonable. 10-4 seems reasonable too.
Anyone who has spent time in the music department of their college of school would know how much and what type of noise a baby grand makes - not as much as you'd think!
Do it.
Posted by: infinitejester at October 26, 2009 2:58 PM
Actually I think the piano sound travels less through the floor than the cello. Have played both in multiple dwellings, and can hear the reverb on the cello rattling stuff on the walls. Of course I only play between 1:14-1:16pm. As a jazz pianist, they don't typically play as loudly as a classical pianist might. Definitely less noise than some yahoo with a crazy sound system. My old neighbor used to have his surround sound cranked so loudly that it would literally shake stuff on my shelves. It is kind of depressing to see so many music haters though. To quote rob :-/
Posted by: CG_ups at October 26, 2009 3:54 PM
Bklnite, thanks a lot! We'll try some of the suggestions.
Posted by: kensingtonka at October 26, 2009 3:59 PM
"Of course I only play between 1:14-1:16pm."
OMG! What is wrong with you! That is the critical "the kid just fell asleep but isn't soundly asleep yet and might wake up so for the love of all that is good and holy just be quiet for 2 freakin' minutes" time.
.
.
.
.
.
Sorry -- very sleep deprived at the moment...
Posted by: northsloperenter at October 26, 2009 4:05 PM
northslope. you need to take a nap. i was kidding. i'm at work during your kid's naptime.
Posted by: CG_ups at October 26, 2009 4:13 PM
kensingtonka. you have an upright piano? if so, you can put a thin piece of felt inbetween the hammer and the strings. that dampens the sound a LOT. beyond anything exterior and not requiring any complicated or expensive purchases.
Posted by: CG_ups at October 26, 2009 4:16 PM
It's been an interesting discussion. This would be the 3rd floor of a brownstone, so i'm really also wondering if/how the grand piano is going to take those narrow turns/sharp corners. With a 2nd floor tenant who works from home on some days, I have to be especially vigilant about who's going to live above.
Thanks all.
Posted by: AEPE at October 26, 2009 5:21 PM
Lucille, I think you are one of the only other NYers born and raised here! Thank you! Music does not bother me as much as say a screaming child or construction, but we live in a city! If you want quiet, move to the burbs!
To AEPE, in these times, take the tenant you can get. I would worry about a baby grand and your floors, becuase they are vey heavy, but if the floors can hold it, why not? However, before accepting the tenant, do get a 2nd landlord reference. That way you can make sure her current L/L isn't just trying to get rid of her. Then on the Rider to the lease, put the hours she can play in, and that if she plays at other times, that it is grounds for evitction. We have had musicians before, and were wary at first, but even in big buildings, we've never had noise complaints as long as they play at reasonable hours.
Posted by: Cobblehillbaby at October 26, 2009 6:06 PM
I lived with a professional pianist, and it never bothered me. Definitely put it on a carpet. And piano movers are really good at moving pianos--they take the legs off. My pianist moved hers into a place with a super sharp turn--no idea how they did it, but they did it.
If you're worried about the 2nd floor tenant, talk to the 2nd floor tenant. Whatever fl 2 agrees to, put in writing. And if fl 2 won't agree, you have your answer. And you have fair reason to jack up fl 2's rent when renewal times comes--he cost you a tenant.
Posted by: bkrules at October 26, 2009 6:59 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.