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October 15, 2009

Hot Water System Help

Last time I wrote about capping a radiator, Bobjohn correctly asked whether I was unknowingly describing a hot water system. Well, it's a new place (for us) and we're just getting to know the place, so yes indeed it is a hot water system (converted from steam, it seems, years and years ago).

During our reno, the system was bled and this one radiator was taken out. Do I have this right: I need to connect the two pipes where the radiator was, not cap them, right?

And is this a piping connection that's going to need soldering? I can't visualize how to get two elbows plus a piece of straight pipe together with threading, unless there's a clever coupling I can get.

And last, what am I looking for in a vlalve on the hot water heater to let me charge the system back up once I've closed the gap?

Thanks!

Posted by AstralOil at 3:02 PM | Comments (10)
Categories: Heating

Comments

AstralOil -

With all due respect, your questions indicate a level of knowledge with the systems that would lead me to recommend you call a professional. If you can't answer the questions you are asking, there are other variables you may not know to consider, which could be costly or even dangerous.

You are probably right about connecting the supply and "return" pipe (which, depending on your system, may be another supply line to a radiator downstream, if connected in series). It's also possible that capping could work, but it all depends on the design of the system, and how the supplies and returns are run. This should have been decided during the renovation. If you just connect the pipes, and they are exposed, you will have a very hot pipe running through the room. There are enough variables in this project that a consult with a plumber would be a very good investment.

If there was any doubt, your question about the water heater answered it. Water heaters, except in rare situations, do not provide whole-house heat and is not what is supplying hot water to your radiators. What you are looking for is a boiler, and you can't simply open a valve to "recharge" the system. There are issues including system/head pressure, based on the elevation of the highest radiator in the house, and may other variables. Do you know what tests to conduct to ensure the entire system is charged to the correct pressure, that all the air is out of the system, that the flue damper is opening when the burner kicks on, etc etc etc.

I am a very ambitious do-it-yourselfer, and I love to save money and feel a sense of accomplishment. There are just some jobs that I don't have the knowledge for, and need a pro. I mean this in the kindest way possible - you're in over your head on this, and should call a plumber.

Dan B

Posted by: dbarufaldi at October 15, 2009 9:53 AM

Dan B --> Very well said!! I doubt anyone could have said that better.

Posted by: SenatorStreet at October 15, 2009 10:03 AM

Advice well taken, and thanks for being so - tactful. I'm an ambitious diyer too, but hopefully not a foolish one. Yes, we have been a little blindsided by the slow recognition of what we've got here (there's lots of signs that it was a steam system, at least formerly, so I never actually gave it another thought in the middle of the summer...).

And, yeah, I don't know much about this stuff, but I'm prepared to learn what's necessary since I've got a lifetime of dealing with it ahead of me. If that means learning it over the shoulder of a plumber, and there's no other way to do it, fine.

As for connecting the pipe, I have done enough piping that I feel ok with this solution, if it's correct (the pipe would end up underneath some cabinetry, and not out in the open for potential hazards. But it is a connection puzzle for me. Is it a fair compromise between my desire to do something myself and the need for a plumber to try and make the connections myself, and then get a plumber to come and charge up and inspect the system? Or ixnay the whole thing?

And thanks for the straight talk.

Posted by: AstralOil at October 15, 2009 10:12 AM

Advice well taken, and thanks for being so - tactful. I'm an ambitious diyer too, but hopefully not a foolish one. Yes, we have been a little blindsided by the slow recognition of what we've got here (there's lots of signs that it was a steam system, at least formerly, so I never actually gave it another thought in the middle of the summer...).

And, yeah, I don't know much about this stuff, but I'm prepared to learn what's necessary since I've got a lifetime of dealing with it ahead of me. If that means learning it over the shoulder of a plumber, and there's no other way to do it, fine.

As for connecting the pipe, I have done enough piping that I feel ok with this solution, if it's correct (the pipe would end up underneath some cabinetry, and not out in the open for potential hazards. But it is a connection puzzle for me. Is it a fair compromise between my desire to do something myself and the need for a plumber to try and make the connections myself, and then get a plumber to come and charge up and inspect the system? Or ixnay the whole thing?

And thanks for the straight talk.

Posted by: AstralOil at October 15, 2009 10:13 AM

Glad you heard my comments in the voice I meant them. E-speaking sometimes gets miscontrued.

I would just have the plumber do the whole thing, and here's why. If you connect the pipes when you could have capped instead, then you are heating the cabinet space unnecessarily, for all eternity. If you connect, and then the plumber gets there and says "you could have capped", he will have to either undo what you did (he won't likely wait for free while you do it), and then charge the system, or he'll have to come back, and charge another service call. Of course, you could just leave it connected at that point, but if I could avoid adding an unnecessary coupler in the heat system (another possible point of leak, which in the cabinets would be expensive), and also avoid all that heat in a cabinet, I would. If you go the route of connecting, ask the plumber if insulating the pipe would be wise.

In the end, the big $$ for this job is going to be getting the plumber to the door. Once there, connecting a few pipes (if easily accessible) should not add that much to the bill.

By the way - can you see where the pipes come from and go to? Are they exposed or in a wall?

Dan B

Posted by: dbarufaldi at October 15, 2009 10:28 AM

With all due respect to Bobjohn there are 2 pipe steam systems. Not uncommon at all. Are you sure it's hot water???

Posted by: modsquad at October 15, 2009 1:22 PM

The more important question would be where were the two pipes tapped into the radiator? If it was a conversion to hot water than one of the pipes should of come out near the bottom and the other near the top.

Posted by: modsquad at October 15, 2009 1:32 PM

Based on the pump on the boiler and the levels in the pressure gauge (the whole scale is much higher than steam systems usually go - it's obviously set up to read the 20-40 psi range more typical with hot water), as well as bleed valves recently (relatviely) added to the radiators, it sure matches all the descriptions of hot water systems I can find. Even though there are some legacy signs of steam, they are a lot dustier than the things that make it seem to be hot water.

All in all it sounds just quirky enough to call in a plumber and stop messing around with my self-education, now that the temperature has dropped and the sun has disappeared for five months.

Dan B: The pipes are mainly exposed, though it's a little unclear at points where they go from floor to floor whether the offending gap is on a branch of the system or if it's all a closed loop. Another reason to stop my sleuthing and get some help. Thanks again-

Posted by: AstralOil at October 15, 2009 2:48 PM

i think owning a house might make you boring.

Posted by: ftgreenepark at October 15, 2009 3:04 PM

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