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October 7, 2009
How To Compare Maintenance
Can anyone recommend a tool or resource or database for doing neighborhood-by-neighborhood comparisons of coop maintenance fees? I live in a coop in PLG, and we have a lot of conversations about whether or not our maintenance is reasonable, and it would be nice to be able to get beyond anecdotal evidence.
Let me describe the thing that would make me happiest: A spreadsheet, where each row was a New York City neighborhood, and where each column was a category of coop building ("large, w/ doorman," "small, w/o non-doorman," etc.), and the cells contained a rough estimate of average or reasonable maintenance figures for that kind of building in that neighborhood ... perhaps expressed in dollars of maintenance per square foot of apartment.
(Apparently what would make me happiest is a robot real-estate broker.)
Thanks, everyone.
Comments
You know, you can create forms in Google Docs that will populate a spreadsheet that you do or do not make public.
And I bet that plenty of co-op boards in PLG have the same question and would love to share information about what they're paying and what they're getting for it.
It just takes an organizer to get the conversation started.
Posted by: serpentor at October 7, 2009 10:39 AM
I would search apartments on NYTimes and craigslist that are for sale in your neighorhood, and start jotting down maintenance for studios, 1 bed, 2 bed in different buildings in Excel. It's going to be hard to go by sq ft because co-ops don't generally have standardized sq footage measurements, but you can go by what the broker says the sq footage is, or simply try to eyeball it from the floorplan and/or photos in the listing.
Posted by: setancre at October 7, 2009 11:16 AM
I think that the New York Council of Cooperatives and Condominiums does something like that already, but their information may be mostly for coops in Manhattan. I guess that my advice is that you should look to them, or through Habitat, because you might find some of the info that you want.
Posted by: Minmin at October 7, 2009 11:50 AM
Also, it is worth talking to UHAB, the United Homesteaders Assistance Board, which can be a real resource on things like this.
Posted by: serpentor at October 7, 2009 1:13 PM
anyway, you wouldn't do it that way, you'd break every data point into its own column. ie, doorman, storage, sft, outdoor space, parking, etc ect.
Posted by: denton at October 7, 2009 1:37 PM
"Reasonable" depends on so many things...most importantly the underlying mortgage and taxes. A full-service building is at least $1.50+ depending on neighborhood and size (number of units)these days.
Posted by: BH76 at October 7, 2009 1:45 PM
instead of comparing maint. fee - I would compare operating costs - fuel, taxes, insurance, etc.
Also - reserve/escrow funds... how well funded is bldg for future repairs,etc.
And of course mortgage amt and rate of underlying mortgage.
Saying bldg is better shape or more competitive by looking at monthly maint. is missing bigger picture.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 7, 2009 2:21 PM
Whether your maintenace is reasonable depends on your building's expenses -- not anyone else! Look at your financials! Your budget!
Posted by: BH76 at October 7, 2009 4:23 PM
I did a spread sheet on my own a few years ago when we were considering raising maintenance and I wanted comparable maintenance in Brooklyn. It was tedious, and in the end it's really difficult to compare across buildings because there is so much info that you can't know about a co-op unless you live there. Things like J-51 abatements, building staff (union or non-union), doorman, security, outdoor space, what big maintenance projects are going on, what assets the co-op has that generate income (rental spaces, parking, storage, etc), mortgage type and whether the board generally prefers to raise maintenance or do an assessment for building projects or improvements.
It was a few years ago, but in general, maintenance was slightly less than $1 per square foot in the downtown 'hoods I looked at. I'm sure it's gone up since then since most co-ops have had their taxes go up with new assessments.
Posted by: kimmc at October 7, 2009 4:58 PM
Find a building that's paid off its underlying mortgage and is in a low tax area. Maintenance will be less than $500 per apt.
Posted by: mopar at October 7, 2009 10:20 PM
Thanks, everyone.
Serpentor: I like your initial idea ... but I'm not sure I'm the one to devote the time to it. If I do, I'll certainly let Brownstoner know.
klmmc: Thanks for the wisdom. My experience so far has been roughly like yours, that comparisons are hard. Still, it would be good to know how high a building's maintenance can go before potential buyers feel like it's simply too far out of whack.
mopar: You raise an interesting point: what percentage of Pre-War coops buildings do carry underlying mortgages? In Brooklyn, it must be a majority, no?
Posted by: winthrop at October 9, 2009 9:40 AM
Winthrop, if the coop incorporated many years ago, then it's very likely they already paid off the underlying mortgage. But it seems Brooklyn is mostly a borough of houses rather than pre-war coops. But there are some. A remarkable number seem to be in Brooklyn Heights, alas, where the taxes are high. FWIW, there are a handful of original coops in Jackson Heights (Queens) that have very low maintenance. OTOH, some require high down payments (33 percent), and you want to watch out for assessments and poor maintenance.
Posted by: mopar at October 10, 2009 1:06 AM
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