Forum
« Amigini Architectural Vintage Coffee Table for Sale »
October 5, 2009
Gas Pipe Problems
Our electricians want us to bring in a plumber to shut off the gas that feeds the light fixtures AND saw off the pipes that hang down a few inches past the ceiling in every fixture.
Questions: We have at least nine to saw off if not more. Isn't this going to take forever and won't the plumber charge us an arm and a leg? Also, will we be destroying our ability to hang other types of light fixtures later?
Unfortunately, we don't have enough old fixtures to cover the pipe length.
Also, anyone recommend a plumber for this? We have to do it this week, which is crazy.
Comments
Wow, you still have the gaslight lines. We had a few little sections, but not many.
Why do you need a plumber to saw? Don't you just need a plumber to make sure these lines are dead and to cut them off at the source if they are still connected? Are they capped at the ends? If not, chances are, they've been cut off for years, or the house wouldn't be standing there. Once you know the lines are dead, anyone can saw them, I would imagine.
For a plumber, call John Hlad, although I am not sure he makes it up your way.
I'm sure if I got this wrong, Master Plvmber will chime in. (And, of course, you could always call Gateway to check the lines if Hlad can't do it.)
Posted by: slopefarm at October 5, 2009 1:23 PM
I would hold back on cutting any gas line pipes hanging from the ceiling as they can be used to hang old fixtures that you have rewired (like large, heavy, old gas or gas/electric chandeliers). It's often the only wayto hang a lights of that size and era without destroying ceiling medallions.
If you do have to cut them, you can just use a sawzall (sp?).
Make sure, of course, there's no gas still in the lines.
Posted by: 1842 at October 5, 2009 1:39 PM
Think about this before you start cutting. If you cut flush then you lose the ability to thread these and hang new fixtures. Leaving a bit more pipe exposed (you'll cover it with a ceiling cap or the new fixtures) so that you can thread that pipe and get it hung properly.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 2:01 PM
Thanks everybody, but I still don't understand. If you cut them flush, why can't you hang fixtures on them? I am so confused!!!
So I guess we should leave them there, let the electricians do their thing, and then we can just leave some bare wires hanging out temporarily until we can get the right kind of fixtures to cover them? We will have to move in before we can cover them, though. I guess the inspection will be a bit delayed?
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 2:35 PM
I'm not sure if the lights inside the house are still connected to the gas, but the lamppost outside sure is. It's been capped though and there is no lamp head, so it's not currently functioning as a light. I am a bit tempted to fire it up again rather than rewire -- but figure that's a little ridiculous, not to mention dangerous. Though it would go nicely with the ice and coal deliveries.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 2:38 PM
mopar....get that ouside lamp fired up...they are beautiful.
In order to hang a fixture you have to be able to thread it to the pipe. It's not like you clamp it on or something. I'm assuming the ceilings are plaster, right.
You use what's called a hickey to attach the fixture to the threaded end of the pipe. But the electrician has to be able to thread the end of the pipe and that can only be done if it sticks out an inch or two beyond the ceiling.
http://www.grandbrass.com/hickeys.cfm
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 3:16 PM
you can search the web for places that sell the replacement parts for the gas light outside your house. My neighbors in PA have a pair of huge ones on their front porch that they run 24/7 on propane.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 3:21 PM
I have never understood entirely the comments made by some posters that they hang their electric fictures from the old gas pipes unless electric wires were threaded through the old pipes.
Is that it?
Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 5, 2009 3:26 PM
No. The wire is run to the location of the light, and is separate and just gang, providing co structural support for the fixture. The old gas pipe is used only for the structural support. Usually there's a medallion that people want to save and most of the time there is no adjacent joist to provide the structural support to hang the light, only the plaster. If it's not very heavy you can use the plaster and the lathe for support but that's very iffy.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 3:31 PM
"separate and just hangs, providing no structural support"
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 3:36 PM
Old gas chandeliers were really heavy, I assume the gas pipes where somehow firmly attached to the joists. Nothing like having your chandelier crash on top of the London Broil during dinner.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at October 5, 2009 3:49 PM
DIBS is spot on with this. Don't cut them if you don't have too. If you do, leave as much out as possible so you can rethread the pipe if necessary in the future.
Posted by: 1842 at October 5, 2009 3:56 PM
OK, everybody, this is great. But now I want to know: So what lights do you have over all your old gas pipes?
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 4:01 PM
mopar...I got chandeliers from this guy...reproductions but quite well done...
JF Pegan...he has an ebay store...his stuff is beautiful and reasonable.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 4:05 PM
Oh, great resource. Thanks, Dave! So do you have chandeliers in every room?
We just want something simple and unobtrusive in most rooms. But we need a 30-foot drop. And it would be so nice to be able to put the same light in every room. Say, perhaps a pan light with two lights in the bigger rooms, and a simpler light on a chain fixture in the halls. But it's impossible to find multiple matching antique fixtures.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 4:14 PM
mopar...large hanging ones in the LR and rear room of the parlour level. Smaller haging one in the entrance hallway and then a few wall sconces like the single brass old style gas ones along two halls. Bedrooms have more modern fixtures that hug the ceiling but still look good with the medallions.
A 30' drop???????????
Most of this guys globes match.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 4:19 PM
Ahhhh. Thank you, this sounds elegant.
Oops, a 30 inch drop. Sorry, haven't moved into Grand Canyon.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 4:37 PM
He'll do any size drop you want.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 4:40 PM
Years ago BUG told me that it costs about $75 a year to run my gas lamp (probably $100 now) - it's a single mantel. Double would be more & I don't know how the open flames compare.
The gas pipes are also helpful if you want to hand a ceiling fan.
Posted by: Arkady at October 5, 2009 4:58 PM
Yeah, this guy's stuff looks really, really good.
Arkady, you have a working gas light in the house? When can we come over to gawk? (Kidding.)
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 5:05 PM
Our stair hall hanging fixture is affixed in just that way described above. A threaded nut was put on the end of the gas pipe as an anchor for the pendant fixture.
David,
Those neighbors of yours in Bucks are needlessly adding to their carbon footprint burning propane (that has to be trucked in to them) day and night. Hhh...I'm sure it looks swell but...
Interesting how gas was originally delivered for interior lighting in many places: coal (which was used at the time for heating) was heated in an outdoor furnace just enough to force out the burnable gas(es) which was piped into the house.
Lighting has a very interesting history. Through the 1800's into the 20 century, there were constant advances. It seems the technology and the fads were constantly changing. The big ones that changed house interiors were piped in gas (I think our house from 1850's definitely was NOT built with piped gas--the workman who were able to thread all those gas pipes in and then replaster did a pretty good job. Much better than work done these days!).
When our house was new, I would imagine the first occupants relied on oil lamps and candles. But there were many oil lamp innovations throughout the years, a number of fuel changes which required different kinds of lamps/burners/technology. Meanwhile, oil and especially kerosene lamps were used well into the 20th century. Alcohol was also used but mostly for cooking purposes. A friend of mine who passed away a number of years ago sadly grew up in the 30's and 40's in Indiana with kerosene lighting in their house. They had some electricity but it was very weak. They used it for the radio and a couple of other things, maybe one or two bulbs--but the main lighting was still kerosene.
The big change to house interiors after gas was the addition of electricity of course (aside from all the plumbing that was added to houses that predated all that indoor plumbing like ours). Early Edison bulbs were pretty dim. There are many hybrid gasolier/electroliers around. You'll see them with their up-facing gas burners and their down-facing electric bulb sockets. They've usually been converted to electric wiring if you see working lights. I generally find them to be ugly. There are a good number of repros out there, equally ugly--or let's say not my taste.
All these changes to technology has sometimes been a detriment to the older houses (houses that predate hot-water return radiators, gaslighting, electricity, completely plumbed bathrooms...) so they can sometimes be a little worse for wear because of all the alterations. Oh, well. Modern conveniences have their aesthetic costs, no?
Plus those pesky cable wires! They're the new nuisance. Such a mess outside and in!
Posted by: BrooklynGreene at October 5, 2009 5:36 PM
I expected nothing less from you BrooklynGreene. I'll tell them. They also have about 6 cars including a hi performance mustang and a pickup truck that they hardly use. And they are Democrats.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at October 5, 2009 6:36 PM
David,
Why am I not surprised. Hhhhh...but seriously, you were baiting me with that 24/7 propane comment and y-o-u know it! :-)
Yes, yes, sad but true, I too have friends (and family--in facts in Bucks!) who have little or no consciousness about(their) energy usage and general consumption...and possibly have a little (nay, a lot of) hostility to the threat of being told "no" or feeling like they might be told what to do or what's best/better...a hostility to any perceived threat to their perceived comfort. When asked why every light is on in the house (including closets, powder rooms, the basement, TVs, stereos, you name it, everything! when we're sitting, quietly talking in one room in the house), the response is that they can afford this level of utility bills so it's fine. Sometimes the only acknowledgement of any consciousness of the issues might be a momentary guilty look or a better, a slight eye flicker to say, "I can't believe she's drumming up this one again...but still, maybe I AM wrong but I don't want to let her know I know that".
Basically, they're very much wrapped up in "lifestyle" without realizing to what extent, are continuously running after satisfaction after satisfaction, much of which is either empty or does not pan out...formulaic, sad (to me) and a little hard to have to be around since I'm so empathetic. Despite the good face everyone tries to put on it, there is still a not-so-passing veil of disappointment, boredom, depression in their eyes. At some point buying and consuming doesn't do it any more even if it takes you around the world.
A very good friend of ours, now passed, was always running away it seems. He managed to get through it by constantly traveling.
One question, what is a "hi performance mustang"? Is it a car that gets 80 mpg or a horse that needs little maintenance?
:-)
Posted by: BrooklynGreene at October 5, 2009 10:56 PM
Now I'm worried the electricians are going to say they can't leave the pipes and have to put in 4 inch boxes or they won't pass the electrical inspection. Anyone have any advice to counter this with?
BrooklynGreene, that's very interesting your place didn't have bathrooms. Did it have sinks in the bedrooms? I've seen that in a few Fort Greene houses.
It's interesting to think of the permutations and style changes these houses have gone through. I doubt our place ever had fancy fixtures. Gas lights can look amazingly primitive and stark - sometimes just burners on the end of pipes. Our electric fixtures are very utilitarian.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 11:06 PM
Oh, I think our posts crossed in the ether. And isn't it interesting that the Intertubes are still so full of ether in this day and age?
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 11:28 PM
Mopar,
The gas pipes are great for anchoring heavy light fixtures or ceiling fans. I'm glad that I still have many of them in my house. HOWEVER, if the electricians MUST install new boxes, these can also support heavy fixtures [and especially fans] if they're mounted with cross braces attached to joists. I think it's desirable to keep the gas pipes, but it's not essential.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at October 6, 2009 9:03 AM
Thank you so much, Bob Marvin.
I am rather upset that I'm apparently going to have to cut off my gas pipes to meet code. I really do not want to do this.
Not to mention breaking all the original medallions. I hate this.
Posted by: mopar at October 6, 2009 1:11 PM
Our electrician (?!) managed to drill and cut carefully into the center of the medallion without breaking the whole thing up. Hole was big enough to work in and put the box, but small enought to be covered later. It's possible, difficult but possible. Don't give up, press everyone hard to get this done the way you want.
Posted by: slopefarm at October 6, 2009 2:23 PM
Thanks!
Posted by: mopar at October 6, 2009 4:21 PM
Mopar,
Meeting code is over-rated :-)
BUT, sometimes you have no choice.
I WAS under the impression that the old round "gas boxes" were grandfathered in, but I'm not sure.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at October 6, 2009 4:41 PM
Just spoke to the electricians. They figured out the gas pipes inside are not active, and they've already sawed off the protruding pipes on the top floor. They attached the boxes to the beams in the same location, so they will bear weight. So far all the medallions are intact.
We're meeting later this week to discuss the other floors and medallions.
Posted by: mopar at October 6, 2009 6:29 PM
They've been doing an amazing job. Have not broken one medallion.
Posted by: mopar at October 11, 2009 11:46 AM
A couple of folks that posted mentioned that the gas pipes are handy if you want to hang a ceiling fan...are there special ceiling fans available that are made to fit these gas pipes? If so, can someone point me in that direction?
Additionally, does anyone know of a semi-simple way of hanging a George Nelson pendant lamp from one of these gas pipes? It was very easy to install when a modern box was available.
Posted by: tranzfuse at October 27, 2009 1:46 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.