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October 5, 2009
Contractor Estimates
Am I way underestimating the cost of a simple kitchen/bathroom update in a pre-war co-op apt? All we want to do is install Ikea cabinets, new floor & counters in a 10x6 kitchen, reglaze a bathtub, redo a shower stall, and put in new vanity. Our budget is $20-25k and estimates so far are $35k-42k which seems like a lot for not that much work. Am I way off?
Comments
Need a little more info here, do plumbing lines need to be moved or installed? What kind of kitchen flooring and counters?
Posted by: AEPE at October 5, 2009 11:18 AM
If that's really it, your budget should be fine...is there more to it than that...new appliances, reconfiguring fixture layouts, etc?
If not, then talk to more contractors.
Posted by: jcarch at October 5, 2009 11:36 AM
redoing shower? does mean ripping out - new shower pan etc?
ripping down all the walls putting up new rockwalls for new tile? how expensive of tile did you pick out --- or just buying a stall shower? lots of things can make expensive...
but your budget seems fine....
Go and pick out materials you want, tiles, faucets, countertops, etc. So you know what is cost of materials vs. cost of labor.
Posted by: Petebklyn at October 5, 2009 11:58 AM
No plumbing lines need to be moved, although we may demolish our stall shower and put a showerhead in the bath...but there's already a water line there for the bathtub and contractors said it would be simple. No structural work planned (i.e. walls removed, electrical or plumbing moves).
We plan to do granite counters and porcelain tile floors -- nothing too outlandish. Not that much counter/floor space so cost should be reasonable on that.
One contractor gave me a total estimate of $35k with no breakdown for labor vs. materials or room vs. room. The other broke everything down and it totaled $22k for kitchen and $16.5k for bathroom (plus design & ins fees). Waiting on one more with fingers crossed.
Posted by: pampers28 at October 5, 2009 11:58 AM
I wouldn't work with anyone that gave an estimate with no breakdown of the costs.
Why don't you call All Renovation and have them come and take a look? They have one of the best reputations in the industry. We did not work with them because we ended up going with a different house but they came out and gave us an estimate on a job which seemed really fair.
It sounds like the contractor who gave you the 35k bid will be sourcing the materials for you. Check out the link below. This place is a tile importer/distributer located in NJ. We are going out there next weekend because they were selling the exact same Calcutta basket weave tile for $11.95 sf that we saw at a very reputable retailer for $48/sf.
Posted by: bedstuytownhouse at October 5, 2009 12:55 PM
Forgot to add link: http://www.iswesttile.com/
Posted by: bedstuytownhouse at October 5, 2009 12:57 PM
I've seen other recs for All Renovation on Brownstoner but I thought perhaps they specialized in bigger jobs like brownstone renos. Worth a try. Thanks.
Posted by: pampers28 at October 5, 2009 1:06 PM
Get three bids, everything spelled out in detail and exactly the same, from three different contractors recommended to you.
Re cost of flooring and counters: What kind are you installing? Depending on what you're doing, you could spend very little -- like about $2,000. Or you could spend a lot if you want granite, etc.
Re shower: The coop is responsible for demo and installing a new shower pan, you are responsible for tiling. It will cost approx $800 for the labor.
I would not start experimenting with putting a new shower into the tub, etc. If you do that, you also have to replace the plumbing in the walls, and might even have to get a new tub if the old one uses an outside waste line.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 1:11 PM
Oh sorry, didn't see your comment about granite and porcelain. I'm not up on costs for those items.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 1:12 PM
Mopar, the co-op is NOT responsible for installing new shower pan. Where did you get that idea? No where in any co-op proprietary leases that I have seen did I see co-op responsibility for that and I've seen plenty. Maybe in some rare cases co-op opts to doing that but that doesn't meant every co-op does.
I think your estimates are legit based on your wants and I have a feeling you're being overpriced. Shop around. I did somewhat similar to what you are looking for and it costed me about 15K (with materials). Given I went with a sort of handy man as opposed to a large contractor guy with stuff of people. I personally like dealing with one person and know that he is doing all of the work.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 5, 2009 1:23 PM
In any economy, this one in particular, $20-25k is a lot of money.
Posted by: bedstuytownhouse at October 5, 2009 1:35 PM
I actually think that my co-op will replace shower pans but I'm going to check -- thanks for the reminder! The contractors we're seeing are all 1-2 man ops so no big companies. That's one of the reasons I thought they'd come in cheaper.
We don't want to spend more than we think we might get back in a sale in 2-3 yrs. Of coure, no one knows where the market will go but it seems silly to invest more than $25k when the apt is in pretty good shape to begin with. The sponsor who updated the place a few yrs before we moved in just did so very cheaply so it looked nice at first but hasn't worn particularly well.
Posted by: pampers28 at October 5, 2009 2:37 PM
pampers28, search through the archives and come up with more names and get more quotes. It won’t hurt and there are a bunch of people that recommended contractors that are more than capable in doing the job at a good price. I'll tell you from first hand experience that my bathroom complete gut and reno quotes ranged from 4K for the job all the way to 22K for the SAME EXACT job. Sooo, you never know.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at October 5, 2009 2:45 PM
I would divorce the kitchen project from the bathroom project. Since you are doing Ikea kitchen cabinets, you can price those directly from Ikea and use their certified installer (approx $100/cabinet) for assembly and installation. They can coordinate countertops for you as well (price completely depends on choice of material, can be $25/sq ft to $120/sq ft). Figure out what kind of tile you want on the floor, buy it yourself, and have your own tile guy install it. I've successfully used Rob Mara for tiling, he is recommended a lot around here.
Then I would have separate estimates done for only the bathroom work. Try to decide on fixtures beforehand (new vanity, faucets, etc).
By lumping everything together for both kitchen and bathroom you're giving the contractors an opportunity to build in extra hidden $$ on everything they touch.
Posted by: setancre at October 5, 2009 2:56 PM
I strongly suggest you use Traemand the certified Ikea kitchen cabinet installer. There work is good and their prices reasonable. Everything else do by piece work. You will save money and getva better job.
If you are doing corian countertops go to lowes. Their prices are less expensive than Ikea corian installers. Lowes sends Installers direct from Dupont. They are the manufacturer.
Posted by: Ysabelle at October 5, 2009 3:13 PM
Setancre & Ysabelle, thanks for the suggestions. I have read great things about Traemand on these forums and though I had thought it would be easier to hire one person to do both rooms, handling them separately is an interesting thought. The kitchen should be easy -- I've already picked out my cabinets, tiles and have a good idea about flooring and countertops. Maybe I'll give them a ring.
Posted by: pampers28 at October 5, 2009 3:36 PM
Typically the coop is responsible for anything inside the walls, and the shareholder is responsible for what is outside the walls. In the case of the shower pan, I'm assuming it's leaking or you wouldn't be replacing it. But each coop is different -- should be spelled out in the proprietary lease.
Posted by: mopar at October 5, 2009 4:08 PM
Hey Mopar' I'm w kens on this one, generally speaking. It _may_ be the coop's responsibility if the pan is defective. Maybe. But if the op is putting in something new, definitely not. I hope the OP has board approval for this...
Posted by: denton at October 5, 2009 7:06 PM
Is your co-op going to ask for a building permit or insurance for the contractors? Did the bids take that into account? Have you checked with the board?
Posted by: chmod at October 5, 2009 8:04 PM
I think your budget should be adequate. I recently had similar work done with a similar sized kitchen, bath, and also had skim coat and paint work throughout the rest of my pre war for a similar budget.
Posted by: isaacly at October 5, 2009 9:33 PM
Chmod, my bldg requires a contractor to be licensed and insured but I don't think I'll need a permit since I'm not doing any structural work. The bids do incl insurance costs.
Isaacly, do you have someone who did your work whom you would recommend?
Posted by: pampers28 at October 5, 2009 10:33 PM
pampers28, I highly recommend transcend construction 718-851-1140. I was recommended to them here on the forum.
The experience was friendly, efficient and professional from beginning to end.
Posted by: isaacly at October 6, 2009 6:52 AM
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