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September 3, 2009
PLG Schools and Amenities
We are *this* close to making an offer in PLG and are doing one last round of due diligence. Two main areas of concern schools (I have a 2 year old) and amenities (dry cleaner, food shops etc.) Any PLGers past and present able to share experiences or advice? many thanks
Comments
the Maple St School is beloved
http://www.maplestreetschool.org/
Posted by: Ringo at September 3, 2009 11:51 AM
Thanks! We love the Maple Street School and it's very near the property we are looking at. But we are buying to stay and our little fella is going to be in and out in 2 years...researching schools for 5+ year old...
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 11:56 AM
PLG is changing, and, if you haven't, you should check out the blog hawthornestreet.com, which gives a good feel for the state of play.
There is a fine dry cleaners on Flatbush at Fenimore, the Pioneer supermarket on Parkside and the Associated on Flatbush will serve for most day-to-day grocery needs, and PLG is a four-minute drive from the Park Slope Food Coop, which is the mightiest grocery store on the East Coast of America. It appears that PLG's first true wine shop is about to open, on Fenimore at Flatbush, called 65 Fen. There is nowhere to buy good bread in the neighborhood yet, the gyms leave something to be desired, but there are good fish stores, and plenty of places to get your nails & braids done, and damned fine roti and patties. Men can get a respectable haircut for $10 from Bibi's Unisex on Flatbush at Winthrop. It's a fully-functioning, perfectly safe, mostly vibrant, occasionally filthy, working-class & middle-class neighborhood. But it ain't Park Slope and it ain't Fort Greene.
Posted by: winthrop at September 3, 2009 11:56 AM
Yeah we are moving from Park Slope and happy to be doing so. I love the diversity and vibrancy of PLG. Thanks for the tips, we are feeling good about the possibility here, but before we throw down a massive chunk of change, wanted to look at all the angles. Have been checking out the NYT murdermap too...
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 12:03 PM
Do you mean this?
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map
it seems that plg is on par with crown height and bed-stuy. Of course it does not mean that there is a high chance of being killed but it makes you feel less safe. The threat of plant stealing, car or house breaking is annoying.
Posted by: bklplebe at September 3, 2009 12:12 PM
Yep, that's the one. There's a clear "east of the park" divide with west of prospect park nearly clear through coney island much less volume of murder. It is something to worry about, and we do. I am sure the odds are tiny in the grand scheme of things, but with kids and sometimes working late, we have to think of these things. I don't think it's enough to stop us buying, but i do wonder if things are going to get "better" over the long haul...
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 12:20 PM
There's a movement afoot (you can read about it on the Hawthorne Street blog) to start a charter school in the neighborhood. As far as crime, I'd argue that, while it's not Park Slope, it's not as rough as Crown Heights/Bed Stuy, and the proximity to good transport and the park makes it stand out. YOu can sign up for leffertswatch and lefferts group on yahoo groups to get a sense of some neighborhood issues. But it's a great, vibrant place by and large, and the historic district is among the most intact in New York City.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at September 3, 2009 12:34 PM
I am not sure if things will get much better soon. The strip of buildings on flatbush will not be gentrified anytime soon. You cannot ignore flatbush ave as this is where amenities are, subway, etc. In that sense crown heights and bed-stuy are better situated.
Of course everything has its price but this does not reflect on PLG current prices. 1.23 mil, what?
Posted by: bklplebe at September 3, 2009 12:35 PM
Well, they've gotten significantly "better" already, though I'm not sure why you need to put that in quotes. If you download the 71st precinct compstat reports, you can see that major crimes are down 42% since 2001, and 78% since 1993 (the peak of the murder rate in NYC). Also good to note that the 71st covers a huge swath of Brooklyn, and the part that comprises PLG is only about its westernmost quarter. That said, if you come here expecting it to be Park Slope, you'll realize pretty fast why houses cost 1/2 what they would cost directly across the park. But I love it here.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at September 3, 2009 12:46 PM
Thank you FLH and BLKP for your comments and insights. Flatbush is good and bad; it's what gives the area part of it's vibrancy, but it is (as someone said earlier) "sometimes filthy." The Park is a major selling point for us and transport of course is critical. There's much to recommend it, but it is frayed around the edges for sure. I can do frayed, but school is the big concern. I love that there are groups and individuals active on the issues though. We would totally be involved. Husband is a lawyer and I am in marketing, I am sure we could make some contribution to the greater good!
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 12:47 PM
I moved from Park Slope to PLG in 1974 and have never regretted it, despite the lower level of services. Many Park Slope transplants live here.
My son went to Maple Street School and, after 2 years in the public Brooklyn New School, private schools. Many parents who want public schools continue to send their kids to gifted or magnet programs outside the neighborhood. I honestly do not know any middle class families of any race who send their children to public schools within PLG. That may change drastically if the charter school, tentatively set to open in Sept. 2010 succeeds.
As other posters have pointed out, there are adequate
neighborhood food stores, dry cleaners, hardware stores, etc. (besides the cleaner mentioned, we've been using the one on Flatbush, between Maple & Midwood since moving here--they're fine).
PLG has developed its own small restaurant row on Lincoln Road in recent years and new Japanese and Indian restaurants have opened on Flatbush. The recent influx of middle class 20 and 30 somethings into the neighborhood's apartment buildings has provided a greatly increased market for these services [since all houses in Lefferts Manor, and many in the surrounding parts of PLG are one-family, homeowners have provided a relatively small market. Combined with our proximity to Park Slope, this has historically made it difficult for more upscale businesses here. This is now changing].
The comparison of PLG with Crown Heights and Bed-Stuy is valid in many respects but there is one MAJOR difference. PLG has remained an integrated neighborhood for well over 50 years. A great many white families resisted the late '50s/early 60s blockbusting and the neighborhood has continued to attract newcomers of all races since the "brownstone revival" started, long before I moved here. PLG is not a place that has been recently re-integrated, gentrified, or whatever you want to call it. The tensions that might exist elsewhere are virtually unknown here.
I've been happy in PLG for many years. I was happy before many new businesses started to open and remain happy now.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 3, 2009 12:53 PM
Thank you Bob, that's a really good point about the single family dwellings putting something of a "cap" on the market for food/shops etc. I hadn't thought about it that way. And god knows I am trying to think about it every which way!
Also, i really love the integration that you describe. We have spent most of the year walking up and down all the PLG streets and I love that people are friendly and I do not get any of the "tensions" you describe in this neighbourhood. I grew up in a mixed race environment and benefited from it I want that for my kid too.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 1:08 PM
BKPLEBE:
I so disagree. I recently visited a friend in Patio Gardens. Low and behold I spotted no fewer than five people from my neighborhood (ProHeights) on my way to the subway. Apparently PLG is their new home.
Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at September 3, 2009 1:08 PM
About charter schools. Remember that admission is via lottery. Therefore, even if there is a charter school next to your house your child is not guaranteed a spot. Seems like it would be a better bet to improve the quality of instruction in the local school for all children.
Posted by: BrooklynIsHome at September 3, 2009 1:10 PM
If you're concerned about schools, these 2 links are your friend:
http://schools.nyc.gov/default.htm
http://insideschools.org/index12.php
Go to the DOE site first to search by address and find the school that address is zoned for, then go to inside schools to read reviews.
I'm just a renter, but my husband and I were looking in PLG quite a bit before our recent move this July. We ultimately decided against the neighborhood simply because the quality and reviews of the schools.
It's a great area otherwise, we just didn't want to deal with lotteries or trying to get into a G&T program if, gah forbid, one of my kids turns out to be just "average". I just didn't want to deal with putting kids through that kind of competition so young.
Besides inside schools you can also try to arrange a tour of a school or speak w/ a schools' parent coordinator besides all the various opinions posted on parenting blogs. (and even sites like this one, do a search for schools and there are a few posts asking quite similar questions about "good" school zones)
Trying to figure out the school issue in NYC is such a pain- best of luck!
Posted by: ennuiater at September 3, 2009 1:30 PM
ennuiater, thank you. If only for making me feel like I am not the only one who cannot believe how perverse and luck-based educating your kid in NYC is.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 1:38 PM
How about Maple St School? How easy is to get in?
If not, one has to go private which adds up to the living expenses in this neighborhood.
Posted by: bklplebe at September 3, 2009 1:43 PM
quote:
"Yeah we are moving from Park Slope and happy to be doing so. I love the diversity and vibrancy of PLG."
i always feel like when people say that, really they just mean "priced out". PLG is super pretty tho!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at September 3, 2009 1:44 PM
We have seriously considered PLG, but can't stomach the school situation. We live in Park Slope and our oldest is in public school here. Our youngest is just 1 yo, so until we can secure him in a Park Slope public, or get ourselves into a charter school, we will stay. It wasn't worth the risk to us. Also of concern to us was the commute to school and the fact that our children would have no school friends in their neighborhood.
That said, many people seem to get in somewhere they like, so perhaps I am a worrywart. But I couldn't compromise on this issue.
Posted by: wishinone at September 3, 2009 1:47 PM
Mr Pitbull, yes and no. We are approved for a mortgage three times the size of the one we are likely to take out, so it's not a "priced out" scenario in the classic sense. But I struggle to justify (in my own mind) paying Park Slope prices and being forever tied to our respective desks to service the mortgage beast...I certainly like the idea of **bid[ding] half off comp prices** but someone should tell the sellers that.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 1:55 PM
fair enough BC to BK. :)
what is it about NYC public schools that new people to brooklyn so vehemently destest and won't send your kids to them? is it because they just teach to take standardized tests, discipline problems? im trying to understand as i was recently labelled a "child hater" :-/ and put on posting probation (still sort of on it, can only post in the forum) for the thread recently about a HS in sunset park.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at September 3, 2009 2:01 PM
I certainly like the idea of **bid[ding] half off comp prices** but someone should tell the sellers that.
OK but what's the rush? If you rent you could wait for a while-at least 2-3 years with a 2 year old. If you purchase you are committed to the price and neighborhood.
Posted by: bklplebe at September 3, 2009 2:05 PM
Rob,
Its mainly the discipline problems. A lot of city teachers spend more than half of their time trying to control the classroom rather than teaching.
There are also a lot of bad teachers in NYC schools. Obviously there are also a lot off good ones too, but, the teachers union contract makes it impossible to fire bad teachers and almost as difficult to hire good ones.
Like many unions (not all!), the teachers union protects the bad teachers at the expense of the good ones. Example is pay based on tenure rather than performance.
Posted by: Brokedeveloper at September 3, 2009 2:11 PM
Mr Bull, I think it's a totally fair question. First of all you have to understand that *my* child is a budding genuis and i want to foster that latent talent. Second, that statement is playing in the heads of lots of mom in the NYC metro area.
i could bore you to death with the generational tale of woe whereby the genXers generally got shafted in the attentive parenting realm and therefore are overparenting their kids "because if we had had a little more involvement or encouragement, I could be an astronaut/oscar winner/president now!" But good enough schooling just doesn't seem good enough some how. Not when great and superlative is out there. I intend to leave my kids absolutely nothing in a will, I'm gonna die broke and have a hell of a time spending it in the meantime. But I do want to give them the best start I possibly can.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 2:23 PM
I have lived in PLG for a little over two years and I love it as well... but don't be oversold on the services. I leave the neighborhood for pretty much all my shopping and services, and there's only a couple of good restaurants (although there's a lot of great West Indian food shops). I know some people live here without a car, but I admit I don't know how they do it. I couldn't. But the housing stock is fantastic, the housing market isn't spastically bid, and all the people are really nice. I don't have kids but most of my neighbors send their children to private school, so I expect the public schools are probably pretty bad.
Posted by: geekspice at September 3, 2009 3:36 PM
I know this also won't help your PLG decision making, but besides PS321 which is perhaps the best known, there are a LOT of really good schools surrounding Prospect Park. It just happens that most of them are on the PS/WT side, but schools in South slope, Kensington and Ditmas Park are quite good also.
If I could afford it, I'd totally go for today's House of the Day. PS 217 is quite good.
Full disclosure: We ended up finding a great place that we could afford in Greenpoint, and our son will be attending PS 110 in 2 years. I've never lived on the northside before, I lived in Prospect Heights/Park Slope area for almost 10 years. I like the new neighborhood though, despite all the things I miss about the old one.
If you'd like, I can post later tonight (its at home) my list of schools I identified as "good" based on reading lots and lots of posts and reviews. Unfortunately, quite a lot of them are in neighborhoods that were out of my budget range, but that might not be an issue for you. :)
Posted by: ennuiater at September 3, 2009 3:49 PM
"Seems like it would be a better bet to improve the quality of instruction in the local school for all children."
First of all, I agree with Brooklynishome,100%. A quality public school education, no matter your neighborhood of residence, just ought to be a right afforded to all Americans and not just a privilege to be enjoyed by those lucky or wealthy to be living in the "right" places. That said, what does one do in the meantime when the prospective house and neighborhood hold promise but the local schools do not?
Well, sometimes, f you want something bad enough, you can make it happen with a bit of luck, great timing and prayers but mainly with a whole lot of extra hard work. So then the question becomes how much do you want it? In our case, our family moved to PLG from West Harlem in 1988. At that time, our daughter was already an adolescent and we were clear she would not be attending the neighborhood schools in PLG. But that decision wasn't such a big deal for us. After all, she had never attended West Harlem's neighborhood schools either! Instead, throughout her educational sojourn, we seriously researched the NYC public schools, came up with a lists of the "right" ones and "worked it" such that we were always able to get her admitted into one of the magnet schools, from elementary to high school. Because of our persistence and our daughter's own diligence, she ended up graduating from an ivy league university -- all on the basis of a NYC public school education and all while living in Harlem and PLG.
So what was it about PLG we wanted bad enough for our family that we were willing to send our child not just out of the nabe but out of the borough for her schooling in order to have it? Well, for starters, how about a fabulously diverse, very close-knit and friendly, very small neighborhood comprised of turn-of-the-century rowhouses, victorian frames and prewar apartment buildings. One that is also sandwiched between Prospect Park and the BBG and close to major bus and subway lines. And, of course -- let's be real -- we also wanted it badly because a beautiful home in PLG was within our financial means. (No shame there!) I note that we made this decision long before there were the signs of change now going on in PLG today that have already been noted by other posters.
BTW, one other significant change already in the works but not yet mentioned is the new $60M Lakeside Center at Prospect Park. http://www.prospectpark.org/about/lakeside If there were ever an indication that positive new developments are planned for this side of the Park -- where we are already in close proximity to the Carousel, Lefferts House, the Boathouse and Audubon Center, the Lake, the Zoo -- Lakeside Center is it. Recession or not, I predict that once Lakeside Center opens here in 2011, getting your hands on a house in PLG is going to get a whole lot harder.
Clearly PLG is not for everyone. In the years we've been here, I've seen families move here in optimism only to turn around and leave soon after because the reality of living on the "fringe" was just too harsh for them. OTOH, I've seen way more folk come who decide to stay, just like we did. Whatever you decide, just be sure to do what feels most right in your gut. And, then, having made that decision, be prepared to dig in for the consequences of that choice whether it's PLG "in" or "out." (Hint: if you choose PLG "in", I guarantee you will have instant friends in your neighbors who'll be happy to lend a helping hand.):-)
Good luck!
Posted by: Brooklynista at September 3, 2009 3:54 PM
Wow, i am bowled over by the fantastic advice.
Thank you Brooklynista and ennuiater.
Brooklnista, PLG feels absolutely right for us, I genuinely like the neighbourhood and we are already fantasizing about opening up businesses etc there as well as buying residential. "be the change you want to see..." and all that.
enniater, please do post that list of schools. Any and all advice welcome as I school myself in the Dark Arts of gaming the school system.
Wish me luck on our offer!
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 4:22 PM
"Any and all advice welcome as I school myself in the Dark Arts of gaming the school system. "
You game the system by persuading a friend of yours in a 'good' neighborhood to let you use their address, so you can send your kids to a school in their district.
Ever notice all the cars in front of 321 at 3PM?
Posted by: denton at September 3, 2009 6:20 PM
Not sure that "gaming" approach is going to work in the future (some schools now google you to find addresses attached to you, and question you about that discrepancy). You are going to have to educate yourself, apply everywhere, and hope for the best. Most of the tricks friends have used have been eliminated by new, stricter approaches.
The Maple Street School is a preschool only.
PLG is great, no question, but just be ready for a whole big headache re: the schools (no, there are no local schools that come near adequate right now). I know someone whose child just did not get into ANY good public schools for Kindergarten. If you can swing private, you have more options, of course. If at all possible I would get your child in a private ongoing preschool as soon as possible (say, threes at a decent private)... or wait til he or she is already into a good public somewhere else. Not to be a downer, but it is a grueling and stressful scene, and the stress goes on for a long, long time, and you may end up commuting every day to a school far away on a packed subway train -- and feeling lucky to do so.
Good luck!
Posted by: gussy at September 3, 2009 7:50 PM
BCtoBK,
I'm not sure what criteria Bob Marvin is using to qualify a "middle class" family. I have a well paying union job and my husband is an attorney with a fairly large international law firm, so I would like to think we make the cut. We live in PLG and send our children to school in the neighborhood. So do at least 3 other middle-class families that live on our street. These are just the ones in our daughter's kindergarten class. Our 6yo went to Maple Street School and will start her 2nd year at her zoned school, PS 161. Our 2yo will be attending Maple Street. PS 161 is one of the main reasons we didn't purchase a house in "Lefferts Manor" since none of the homes there are zoned for 161.
Like PLG in general, PS 161 may not be for everyone, which is fine. We're comfortable that as involved parents our children will receive a good education there. I also strongly feel that there is much to be gained from going to school with the people we live with as part of that education. I did some volunteering via Jr Achievement, so I was able to spend quite a bit of time in the school before I was a parent. Last year I helped out in the class a few time and with school trips. I'm looking forward this year to getting more involved with my daughter's school. It's not even close to being perfect, but you would be surprised at what a few like-minded & motivated parents can achieve. If just 10 neighborhood parents a year that send their kids to Maple Street School would put half of the energy & resources that Maple Street demands, our schools would be something to envy indeed.
I had high expectations when I moved to PLG 6yrs ago and so far they have been greatly exceeded. I was looking for the a neighborhood were my inter-racial family could feel comfortable. Some place we could live and not merely sleep. Somewhere my family can be involved and a part of the greater community. I loved the work I've done to help bring new things to PLG. I love being a part of the things & getting to know the people that drew me here in the first place. Living in PLG, I feel when I send my children off into the world, they will be surprised at how special the community they come from truly is.
Posted by: DD at September 3, 2009 9:37 PM
Well, gussy may be right about there being slimmer opportunities to game the system today than many years ago when this was my family's challenge. But, I just don't buy into the notion that the situation is totally hopeless. There are just way too many young families with children who have moved into PLG in the past 5 years; surely not all of these children are enrolled in private schools from the age of 3 forward! As one who tries to see the glass half full, I contend that there are solutions out there to be found --- if you want to find them bad enough! To deepen your research efforts on this question, you might want to touch base with Maple Street School, Almond Tree Group Family Daycare (another popular preschool program here) and those who are working towards the goal of opening the Lefferts Gardens Charter School in 2010. http://www.hawthornestreet.com/2009/03/plg-charter-school-in-the-works.html
(And, DD, what a great post! I must have been working on my response below while you were submitting yours. IMO, yours is exactly the kind of family I was suggesting BCtoBK might want to connect with for getting more helpful contemporary advice/opinions on how to deal with the education challenge.) ___________________________________________________
Posted by: Brooklynista at September 3, 2009 10:00 PM
DD,
Glad to hear about your experience with PS 161. It wasn't on our radar back when we were looking for schools and,with a 26 year old I'm far from up to date on neighborhood schools, other than following news about the proposed charter school. Still, I didn't expect to learn something about my neighborhood from a forum thread--thank you.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 3, 2009 10:42 PM
DD, great post and very helpful. Thank you.
Amen to this:
"you would be surprised at what a few like-minded & motivated parents can achieve. If just 10 neighborhood parents a year that send their kids to Maple Street School would put half of the energy & resources that Maple Street demands, our schools would be something to envy indeed."
I mean, PS 321 wasn't the envy of anything 10 years ago was it?
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 10:53 PM
A big fat thank you to everyone that posted today. I got a ton of information and perspective and I'm only sorry I can't meet this group for coffee. I think the conversation would be awesome.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 11:20 PM
A big fat thank you to everyone that posted today. I got a ton of information and perspective and I'm only sorry I can't meet this group for coffee. I think the conversation would be awesome.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 3, 2009 11:20 PM
"I mean, PS 321 wasn't the envy of anything 10 years ago was it? "
Actually, it was. I moved from BH to PS in 1990 to send my kid there.
Posted by: denton at September 4, 2009 6:22 AM
BCtoBK,
RE: your 11:20 PM comment; if you hang out at K-Dog for a couple of mornings you're likely to meet a fair percentage of us.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 4, 2009 8:21 AM
Sorry for the late reply! I totally crashed last night. Anyhoo, below is the shortlist I came up with in all my research broken down by neighborhood, in no particular order.
Park Slope
Ps282
Ps321
Ps372 - think this is special needs only
Ps39
South Slope
Ps10
Ps124
Ps172
Windsor Terrace
Ps107
Ps154
Prospect Park South
Ps130
Kensington
Ps230
Ditmas Park
Ps139
Ps217
Ps245-considered an "up and coming"
Ps249- consiered an "up and coming"
Greenpoint
Ps31
Ps34
Ps110
Brooklyn Heights
Ps8
Ps29
Carrol Gardens
Ps58
Ft Greene
Ps11
Ps20 = some controversy but overall ok
Prospect Heights
Ps9
Bed Stuy
Ps21
Ps261
Ps10
I'm sure I left some out... this is just what I came up with. You'll also notice I skipped some neighborhoods b/c this list was drawn from areas we were looking for our new apt, and some areas were off the list for us for various reasons. There are lots of others!
Don't forget that going to see the school / talking to a school coordinator can be way more valuable than a million opinions posted on the web. Good luck! :)
Posted by: ennuiater at September 4, 2009 8:21 AM
@ennulater Corrections:
PS 372 is inclusive - mixed general and special education
PS 261 is in Boerum Hill, far from Bed Stuy
Everyone, read www.Insideschools.org reviews for schools in which you're interested.
Posted by: FiredUpReadyToGo at September 4, 2009 10:56 AM
@ennulater corrections, more:
PS 10 is in South Slope, not Bed Stuy (very popular school... growing and on the radar)
PS 107 is also in South Slope (also very popular and very much the 2nd to 321)
Posted by: wishinone at September 4, 2009 1:33 PM
Oops! Thanks guys for correcting my above. I did write Ps10 as south slope but then got my Bed Stuy list all discombobulated.
For Ps107 I guess It's south Slope also, very close to WT as far as I'm concerned.
That's what happens before I've had my coffee for the day :{
Posted by: ennuiater at September 4, 2009 2:58 PM
Ennuiater and correctors all, at this rate I'm going to have enough information to sound like I know what I am talking about on schools. That will be a lifetime first. Aythangyoo.
Bob, just starting to hang out at K-Dog (mostly afternoons so far...) great chocchip scones.
We are still playing the "no you make another offer" game with the seller and broker at the moment, but we are taking advatgae of the time to do this great research.
Here's hoping!
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 4, 2009 9:50 PM
Best West Indian food in the city. Nice racial mix (historically more amongst the houses than the apartment buildings). Good amenities: Supermarkets are fine...when all else fails, Stop and Shop on Tilden about 1/3 mile up will compliment. Great cleaners and tailors around. Hit or miss with the shoe makers as well as the manicures/pedicures. For blacks and hispanics--good barbers and hairdressers.
SCHOOLS
This seems to be the hot topic. If you find a school in another neighborhood that you like, then it only makes sense to try to get your child into school there.
There used to be a small Christian school, St.John's Elementary (that was really inexpensive) on Winthrop. It was also super Caribbean. I went there from K-8 and got the best education: real grammar, math without gimmicks... That school's not there anymore, but if you're Christian/Catholic there are several good and affordable private schools in the surrounding neighborhoods(St. Marks and Epiphany being two that come to mind. Seriously, if religion isn't an issue do think about these options: small classes, rigorous teaching...etc)
The public schools I'm going to refer to are still Flatbush, but not all PLG.
PS 6 is on Bedford near Albermale. Built in the last 15 years, for the most part good school. If your barometer is college or high school then yes, I know students that went there that ended up in the city's top high schools and colleges.
PS92 on Parkside bet. Bedford and Rogers. Not known as the best school, but again the students can leave well. Students end up at Philapa Schuyler (a bklyn magnet school starting at 4th grade that feeds to Stuy/BXSci/and Tech basically) and other good jr. high schools. Once again I know students who attended and are brilliant, functioning adults contributing to society in a host of meaningful ways.
The Caton School- Great services for handicapped children.
PS235(where learning is alive). Somewhere not exactly near...but great education. many teachers laud the school
I've had the fortune of meeting many of those deemed the brightest minds of my generation (I'm 23) and trust me I've found more that started out in public schools in neighborhoods I doubt most of the posters would consider than I have seen that started in public schools in other neighborhoods. The kids from more affluent neighborhoods tended to emerge from private schools anyway.
Honestly, the most important thing in elementary education is probably parent involvement. For junior high/high school you'd want your child to get into a good school or a magnet program anyway. For public schools in Brooklyn that will be out of PLG: Schuyler, Roy H. Mann, Mark Twain,Crown School for law and Journalism, Hudde and special magnet programs in junior highs.
Posted by: BrooklynsGreat at September 5, 2009 12:27 AM
I have no complaints about "BrooklynGreat's" excellent comment except for one really minor one. He/she writes "hit or miss with the shoe makers." Not so; the shoemaker on Flatbush Avenue between Midwood and Maple is very good. I've been using this place for 34 years, through a succession of owners of different ethnicities, Italian, Jamaican, currently Bukharin Jews. All have done excellent work. When you consider that shoe repair shops have vanished in many neighborhoods, this place is a gem.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at September 5, 2009 9:01 AM
I am a 31 year old African American of carribean Hearitage that has lived most of my life in PLG (except for my grad school years in a small quaint Conneticut town.) I was educated in PLG for elemtary and middle school along with my two sisters, and then we all went to NYC Public High Schools - I went to Brooklyn Technical High School, and my sisters went to Midwood and Stuyvesant. We then went on to John College of the City University of New York, Pace and Harvard Universities. From there for graduate schools we went to Quinnipiac Univeristy Schoolof Law, Columbia University and the London School of Econmics in London, England, UK. I give this background to show that we were educated right here in PLG from Kindergarten to the eighth grade, and we went on to what society would say are some the City's finest public high schools, and the world's finest collegiate and post graduate institutions.
I currently work for the NYCDOE as an attorney and though I am not a teacher, I have visted several of the schools in the neighborhood and I can tell you that they are like the schools in other neighborhoods across the city - education is being delivered. As BrooklynsGreat said education is not just about what is done in school, it involves a great amount of parental involvement. The NYCDOE welcomes that involvment and you can look at their website to find ways to be involved. I emplore parents to get involved in the schools in your neighboorhood, so that there can be educational equity for all. Charter schools while fine are not the answer - where does that leave the students who can not get into them.
I am really disheartened by the fact that so many people want to move here, but all they want to do is rest their head at night, and not mix with the people you found here.
Posted by: ILOVEPLG at September 5, 2009 10:32 AM
I am a 31 year old African American of carribean Hearitage that has lived most of my life in PLG (except for my grad school years in a small quaint Conneticut town.) I was educated in PLG for elemtary and middle school along with my two sisters, and then we all went to NYC Public High Schools - I went to Brooklyn Technical High School, and my sisters went to Midwood and Stuyvesant. We then went on to John College of the City University of New York, Pace and Harvard Universities. From there for graduate schools we went to Quinnipiac Univeristy Schoolof Law, Columbia University and the London School of Econmics in London, England, UK. I give this background to show that we were educated right here in PLG from Kindergarten to the eighth grade, and we went on to what society would say are some the City's finest public high schools, and the world's finest collegiate and post graduate institutions.
I currently work for the NYCDOE as an attorney and though I am not a teacher, I have visted several of the schools in the neighborhood and I can tell you that they are like the schools in other neighborhoods across the city - education is being delivered. As BrooklynsGreat said education is not just about what is done in school, it involves a great amount of parental involvement. The NYCDOE welcomes that involvment and you can look at their website to find ways to be involved. I emplore parents to get involved in the schools in your neighboorhood, so that there can be educational equity for all. Charter schools while fine are not the answer - where does that leave the students who can not get into them.
I am really disheartened by the fact that so many people want to move here, but all they want to do is rest their head at night, and not mix with the people you found here.
Posted by: ILOVEPLG at September 5, 2009 10:32 AM
ILOVEPLG, that's an awsome analysis and I appreciate your case study on how PLG schools have resulted in amazing academic accomplishment. i wholeheartedly agree that local parents should get involved and I get the impression that many parents want to.
I do think this is an inaccurate characterisation: "I am really disheartened by the fact that so many people want to move here, but all they want to do is rest their head at night, and not mix with the people you found here." A huge part of the reason that we want to move to PLG is that we have loved meeting and mixing with the people in the nabe and we want to do more! I think that's echoed in a lot of the posts you will find in this stream. Sounds like people of every stripe are proud to be living and mixing in PLG. We hope we can join you all.
Posted by: BCtoBK at September 7, 2009 9:40 AM
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