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September 8, 2009
Messy DOB Situation with Ext.
I have been putting this off for too long, but now feel like I need to bite the bullet and deal so I thought I'd come to the experts for advice...
When we bought our ramshackle house (naive first-time buyers), there were no plans on file at DOB and the inspector did not flag that the extension was done illegally. Now it seems obvious, but we had no idea at the time.
Halfway into the job, our contractor/architect pair hipped us to the problem and said that DOB would probably make us knock it down. They did a gut reno using plans that did not show the extension and advised us that this would be an issue if we ever wanted to sell (which we don't). We have not yet closed out the work order at DOB
When I asked the architect recently how much it would cost for him to revise the plans for submission to DOB, he quoted $12K! Now I'm feeling 100% stuck and also unclear on the implications re: a fine from DOB at some point or even the likelihood of a plan revision getting through.
Can anyone suggest a plan of action here? (Oh yeah, we can't refi our mortgage with an open work order, too.)
Thank you.
Comments
bite the bullet and pay the architect to clean it up...rumor has it that the dob is sifting through the data base to identify problematic files since they raised the "work without a permit" fine to $5000
Posted by: eman1234 at September 8, 2009 8:15 PM
eman - there is a special audit squad out of queens, that is reviewing self certified filings (all alt 1's and random alt 2's I have been told). I have had two jobs audited, and inspectors show up to review work. If they find non compliant conditions they will move to revoke the application and impose violations. I have heard of inspectors showing up much more frequently in general. I think your only course of action is to try and make the situation compliant.
Posted by: jp2 at September 9, 2009 10:34 AM
We were caught in similar situation re self certifying and are in the midst of cleaning it up. If you ignore and have to deal with it down the line, will probably have to pay penalties that accumulate over time and still fix the problem. Best bet would be to deal with it now, suck it up, but not have to think about it again.
Posted by: mh at September 9, 2009 10:42 AM
If nothing else, do the math and discuss the likelihood of success with your architect: Is the existing extension zoning/FAR compliant? How much would it cost to demo the extension (including change orders)? How much do you like having it? $5K fine from DOB is a substantial way towards $12K architect's fees. Has your architect/expediter shown themselves to be reliable for filings that pass DOB muster? I can definitely confirm from our own recent work, all with permits from both LPC and DOB, that there's lots more DOB inspections going on...with and without appointments.
Posted by: vinca at September 9, 2009 11:10 AM
I wouldn't worry about problems selling the place.
I'd worry about your insurance company refusing to pay if there's a fire or an earthquake (rare but NYC is on a major fault line) and they find out you had an illegal extension.
When big money is involved, insurance companies turn over every stone to find an excuse not to pay up. . .
Posted by: IronBalls at September 9, 2009 12:17 PM
IronBalls, acording to your statement if my house has one incorrectly wired outlet, it would let insurance company to not pay for damages from electric fire. even if the outlet has nothing to do with fire. Is this correct?
Posted by: bobjohn at September 9, 2009 12:37 PM
vinca is right, should of include that sow into plans but now you gotta suck it up. DOB will hit hard and one violation will follow along with others. you will pay hard in the long run. Just do it legally!
Posted by: theart at September 9, 2009 4:21 PM
Uh: if the building the appraiser sees doesn't match the plans the DOB has, it could very well get in the way of getting a mortgage.
Some future buyer's bank will insist that it be torn down or certified.
Posted by: serpentor at September 10, 2009 3:24 PM
Don’t blame the inspector, since it is not the inspectors job to look for past filings with the DOB.
Don’t blame your lawyer, because if the previous owners, (who I assume constructed the extension) did not furnish your lawyer with an old survey, there would be no way for the lawyer or the Title Company to know that the extension was added.
You may be able to go after the sellers for failing to disclose the illegal extension at the time of sale. That is if you purchased the house after they passed the full disclosure law and you did not sign your rights away.
As for your Contractor/Architect Pair, That's some team. Count your fingers after you shake hands with them. From what you are saying, it appears that they skirted or made light of the problems in order to get you to start the job. Now midway into the job they are trying to fleece you for more money with no promise that the additional monies will solve the problem.
First and foremost, your Architect should have investigated the extension and laid out to you all the options and costs when you first hired them to draw the plans.
The DOB is notorious for losing plans. However, your architect must have reviewed the Sanborn maps which shows the building envelope as well as the DOB site which shows all of the filings. The architect would have immediately seen that there was no extension on those Sanborn maps and no filing for an extension on the DOB site and should have alerted you to the facts and the pros and cons to resolve the issue at that time.
You also state that the Architect left out the extension when they filed the plans and that the Architect told you that it may need to be torn down, this tells me that the Architect knew that it was an illegal extension and chose to leave it out of the plans, this certainly was not in your best interest, what was the architect thinking, that it will magically get approved or that no one would pick up on it, pretty deceptive.
By the architect telling you that it may need to be torn down, I must assume that the reason for that is the Architect knows that the FAR and or Zoning would not permit the extension as of right. Now I get the sense that you are being set up for another fleecing, because the $12,000 will not get you the extension legalized if it cannot be done as of right.
If this is the case, your only other option would be to go for a variance. The additional $12,000 in fees may be only a down payment towards the cost of a variance and the likelihood of you prevailing would be slim to nil.
Posted by: jre at September 12, 2009 9:55 PM
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