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September 18, 2009
Making Fireplaces Functional
We have several fireplaces in our b'stone which we are interested in making functional - gas, not wood-burning. Does anyone have any idea of what the process is to make this happen? How long does it take? Any idea on the cost? Also, there are 3 in our owner's duplex and 4 in the rental duplex - we only want ours to work.
Thanks, brownstoners.
Comments
There have been lots of helpful posts about that in the past. Try the forum archives.
Posted by: Arkady at September 18, 2009 2:25 PM
I'm going to get all kinds of sh!t for this but hear me out. A few years ago a friend restored a huge mansion in Philly and has two wood burning fireplaces. He had the flues & dampers professionally done by one of the most reputable outfits in town. This was a no expense spared total restoration of a 10,000 sq ft mansion.
He wanted a gas "coal" unit in the formal living room. the guys recommended the units from www.gascoals.net and SEALED the flue. Yes, no venting necessary despite the warnings on the website. They came in with very sensitive CO meters and there was no detectable level of CO because they burn hot blue flame THE SAME AS YOUR KITCHEN RANGE and about the same output as one kitchen burner on high.
I've told this story here before and gotten all kinds of grief over it.
I have one installed at my place and though I have not sealed the flue, have done nothing to it but I am installing a reflective shield this year...it will throw a lot more heat into the room that way.
NO, I wouldn't install one in the bedroom and run it all night with windows closed.
Yo're welcome to come see my installation.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 2:27 PM
Go for what Dave said!
Posted by: werner at September 18, 2009 3:49 PM
Dave- Some questions on that install.
Who did your installation?
Did you order direct from that company, or did your installer do it.
Do you have the round top mantles, and do the inserts fit well within them?
Thinking of putting these in our frame- we are detached on the fireplace side, so these would do a nice direct vent.
Posted by: greenwoodgeneral at September 18, 2009 3:50 PM
I installed them myself. I had my plumber run the gas line to the fireplace. Put a shut off valve in the basement and at the fireplace.
I ordered it directly. The fireplace is a square box. I completely removed the Summer cover and its frame and replaced it with the facade of an insert (not the whole firebox that's attached to the back, just the frontpiece) like this...
http://www.urbanremainschicago.com/item.aspx?itemID=1415
The coal burner fits well inside the firebox and the gilded insert cover pictured above covers up the bottom so you don't see the "guts" and control knobs. You just see the top of the coals and the flame.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 3:57 PM
This is the actual cover I bought...
http://www.urbanremainschicago.com/item.aspx?itemID=964
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 4:02 PM
DIBS: I have been told that unvented gas fireplaces are illegal in New York. Also, that when vented, the stack must rise up so many feet above or away from the building. Is this untrue? I would love to put in a gas fireplace like yours.
Posted by: Silvermax at September 18, 2009 4:19 PM
I'm sure they are illegal. So is cheating on your income tax and putting that stray bottle in the trash instead of recycling it. I'm only talking about what may or may not actually be dangerous. And the CO readings on this are what they would be with the gas range on in the kitchen.
If you want to pull the permits and spend $8-20,000 to reline the ireplace go right ahead. The setup I spoke about in Philly was illegal too. It was installed after the construction was inspected and signed off on. These guys were the most respected fireplace restorers in all of eastern PA.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 4:24 PM
Well, dibs, we agree. There is indeed a difference between "code" and "acceptable levels of safety"...if a Viking stove could run 60kbtu for several hours w/o venting why not a fireplace at 1/4 that? Put a CO detector near the fireplace and rest easy.
Posted by: cmu at September 18, 2009 4:30 PM
dibs, can you actually get coal delivered anymore?
Posted by: denton at September 18, 2009 4:49 PM
As with everything else, denton, it comes from China.
Actually the US is the largest producer of clean coal in the world. BTU and BNI are the plays on coal.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 4:54 PM
Thanks for the info Dave- I have a nice summer cover and was wondering how I could integrate. The full inserts with their own covers tend to look a bit cheesy.
Posted by: greenwoodgeneral at September 18, 2009 5:04 PM
dibs, I know there's coal in the US. I owned CNX for a while, back in the good old days.
I know there's a lot in PA also, hence Philadelphia makes sense to get coal. When I was a kid, I used to watch the coal trucks deliver all over. I'm showing my age, natch.
But if the OP puts in seven coal fireplaces, can you get coal in NY? I'm just curious... Like the old movie, Cotton Comes to Harlem. Will coal come to NYC?
Posted by: denton at September 18, 2009 5:13 PM
denton, when i was very young, our neighbors got coal too.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 5:27 PM
The inserts on the urban remains website look cheesy??? They were the most upscale ones at the time.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 18, 2009 5:29 PM
Putting aside the proposed solution above, we are in the midst of finishing up our reno where we will be activating one of our fireplaces on our parlor floor (back kitchen area) to be gas burning.
But it was just not an inexpensive venture. What I thought would be a $5-$10k project I believe has turned into something closing on $20k because of work we had to do with the chimney, etc.
In any event, the total cost is not for the feint of heart. I am sure people have done fireplaces for far less expense, but my contractors are adamant the guy they use does it right as opposed to many of the others out there. Apparently they used to use less expensive sub-cons for the work, only to have problem after problem at other sites.
I don't know - in retrospect given all the expense, not sure I would do this again.
Posted by: sunspot19 at September 18, 2009 7:52 PM
gas fireplaces are not worth it. Even remote-control ones.
They are, well, fundamentally tacky.
Wood burning firplaces are the way to go. It's the aroma, the crackle, the variation, the labor, the dirt.
No way around it ducks. Sorry.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 18, 2009 9:54 PM
Minard
Yes, most of the commerciallly available prefab gas fireplace "boxes" are VERY tacky but we're talking about adding a "coal" unit to a restored hearth.
I suggest you have a look at the gascoals website.
Also, as one of the posters pointed out above, the $20k cost of renovating the chimney may beyond many people's reach.
The majority of brownstone fireplaces are only deep enough for a coal basket style fire, not a wood one like earlier Federal homes.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 19, 2009 9:41 AM
Most brownstones in Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill and parts of PS are wood burning. The houses built after say 1880 or so have the shallow hearths for coal and later, gas. It is costly to retrofit these hearths to wood-burning units that won't fill the house with smoke. I will check out the gascoals website.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 19, 2009 12:40 PM
Most brownstones in Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill and parts of PS are wood burning. The houses built after say 1880 or so have the shallow hearths for coal and later, gas. It is costly to retrofit these hearths to wood-burning units that won't fill the house with smoke. I will check out the gascoals website.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 19, 2009 12:40 PM
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