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September 1, 2009
How Long to Refinance?
I began a refinance adventure more than 4 months with Wells Fargo (they have my current mortgage as well). We have 50% equity in the house. WF did an appraisal and it came back at higher than we paid. Anyway, I have been receiving the run around for months now. I dont understand why this is taking so long. I feel like they are delaying in the hopes that I give up. We locekd in at 4.875% (no points), and I think they want is to just go away. Is it normal for a refinance today to take so long????
Thanks
Comments
Are you doing a CEMA to avoid paying the mortgage tax? We did a refinance with Wells Fargo 2 years ago, and it took so long our 90 day rate lock expired. They wanted to pay $1,200 to extend the lock, long story short we got a credit that paid for all closing costs. It took about 4 months, and the last 2 weeks I had to be a total pest and call/ e-mail every single day.
Posted by: Maly at September 1, 2009 12:09 PM
i closed in late july w/ wf also. and it took 4 months. and the mortgage banker there paid to extend it the entire time.
closing costs were a bit high, but was glad to lower 1% to 4 7/8 as well.
i had a cema done also.
Posted by: ltjbukem73 at September 1, 2009 12:15 PM
We're going on 4 months with Citibank. All of our documentation expired and had to be resubmitted. We also had to have a second appraisal because the first expired. They paid for that. I basically call every day now.
Posted by: eh at September 1, 2009 12:19 PM
My re-fi with HSBC also took forever and I had to call all the time. I think the banks are just overwhelmed. I'd keep at it, calling every day. Don't pay extra to extend - the delay is their fault and they know it.
Posted by: Kris at September 1, 2009 12:25 PM
They'll waive any fee if you complain. Just did Wells refi. Timeline kinda typical.
Posted by: Johnny at September 1, 2009 12:36 PM
It's taking me forever also, think I started this in April. Documents expired so I have to resubmit. Apparently rates just took a dive this week. Might even lock in today if I'm far enough down that road...
Posted by: slopenick at September 1, 2009 12:59 PM
BofA took so long (5 months) that my credit report expired. When I told them they couldn't run my credit again (I had already closed with HSBC at a better rate) they offered to waive the fee on the point and to give me 1000$ towards closing. Don't sweat it. I was calling HSBC every day since they seemed to be dragging their feet as well (4 months).
Posted by: e10b at September 1, 2009 12:59 PM
I did mine with Bank of America. What a bunch of incompetent nincompoops. I thought it would be easy as they held my original mortgage. BofA is still overwhelmed with re-fi applications. Plus they don't have New York-smarts equipped personnel that can deal with our complex co-op and condo laws. I did re-negotiate all the closing costs. It took over 8 months to complete the entire process. Never again.
If you get hung up in your process, threaten to go to the federal Comptroller of the Currency ... the agency that deals with nationally chartered banks [the ones with N.A. after the company name] with a complaint, and file one if things get sticky. It can be done online. Also complain to the person at the top - look in the wACHOVIA website [as Wachovia owns Wells Fargo] to see who highest person is in terms of the loans and mortgages area - and write that person a formal, US-mailed letter.
Posted by: 5w30 at September 1, 2009 1:05 PM
5w30 - Just closed my BOA ordeal last week. Started 3/1. Couldn't agree with your comments more. They made us ultimately go through Fannie Mae since one entity/person owned more that 10% of the units in our building. Thankfully they extended our rate through the process.
To the OP: hang in there. As you can see, it's all too common in the NYC market.
Posted by: ralphus999 at September 1, 2009 1:20 PM
Exact same situation with Wells Fargo--they have our current mortgage, and we started the refi process about 5 months ago. Being in a small co-op has been a big part of what's slowed things down for us--apparently it takes longer for them internally to "approve" things with this kind of building. I've at least been getting pretty quick responses when I email/call, but they just seem to belabor every little detail of the process... Sigh. Glad to hear I'm not the only one in this boat, at least.
Posted by: Brownstonerlogin at September 1, 2009 2:04 PM
Hey Brownstonerlogin -- we are refinancing our apt in a small (4 unit) coop, also with Wells Fargo. Do you also have an issue with the audited financial statement requirement? They are asking for it, but our building has always done unaudited. Even our coop accountant is suprised about the requirement.
Posted by: apartmenter1 at September 1, 2009 2:17 PM
Splenda,
i'm up to about 8 months now with Wells...they don't respond to e mails, leave dozens of messages with this numb nuts in minneapolis....what's amazing is that when u move on to another broker u have to formally withdraw application from another bank...it's really not hard to see how these pricks lost so much $....no due diligence when mkt is screaming...now they're all being hard as$es when mkt's on way down....Collateral? Credit ? the only thing these mothers understand r FEES
Posted by: bklyn14 at September 1, 2009 2:36 PM
OP here. The crazy thing is this is a free standing house; we have 50% equity; we have received approval; and still it has been over over 4 months since we began....
I am not going to give up as we will save $500/month once we actually do the refinance. But, they are making it so painful.
Posted by: Splenda at September 1, 2009 2:38 PM
real happy to see WFC down a $1 today.....buy FAZ with 2 hands !!!!!!!
Posted by: bklyn14 at September 1, 2009 2:39 PM
we are on month 9! of our re-finance at what was countrywide (now BofA), but looks like it's almost done. it sat for months until a senior manager worked out what the issue was and got it taken care of.
i called or wrote to people almost every day - they were responsive, but they have little control and most can't directly call people in other departments.
it's a sucky process, but damn, cannot wait for a 30 yr fixed at this lower rate. it's really historically low, and our monthly is way below what we could rent for for a similar place as it is, so when this comes thru, think we're in great shape.
Posted by: wine lover at September 1, 2009 3:11 PM
this is why it's sometimes best to deal with a broker.
brokers have a relationship with the bank reps, underwriters and the dummies on the inside.
Posted by: big swinging nick at September 1, 2009 3:25 PM
Hi apartmenter1. We're also a 4-unit co-op, and only do unaudited financials. So far Wells Fargo hasn't required audited ones of us. It's a long time since I submitted the paperwork to them...but I vaguely remember that they may have asked for EITHER audited financials OR unaudited ones + tax returns. But not sure. Sounds like their process is not very consistent... But you might want to ask them about that.
The latest hold-up was getting the info they needed on our building insurance policy from the insurance company. It finally came through and looked like we might have progress, then they red-flagged that the policy didn't separately spell out coverage for the building's common boiler. So they had to go back to ask about that again. Oy. (That reminds me, I should follow up w/ them on that...)
Posted by: Brownstonerlogin at September 1, 2009 4:11 PM
i hesitated before posting, because i don't want to rub this in the faces of everyone mired in a neverending refi directly with their banks, but i decided to add my 2 cents because this info may benefit those who want to refi but have not yet started the process.
big swinging nick is right: bite the bullet and use a mortgage broker. i started my refi in March and closed in May. not even 3 months from start to finish, and i got a very competitive 4.875 for a 30-year fixed. oh, and get this: both my original mortgage and the refi were with Wells Fargo. it's absurd but true that a refi closes more efficiently when you add another layer of service professional to the transaction.
mortgage brokers get paid when the transaction closes, so their interests are aligned with yours on that front. and they are professional paper pushers -- their job is to deal with most (if not all) of the forms, certificates, closing conditions, etc. and they are more responsive and seem more intelligent than the folks you'll encounter at the bank. when you've finished all the paperwork (with their help) and the transaction is languishing, you call them up and apply friendly pressure. they pass that on to their contacts in the bank (aka dummies on the inside).
Posted by: panamac at September 1, 2009 4:17 PM
mine expired, chase was at fault so they extended it and we closed at the deadline of the extension, four months total
Posted by: funstraw at September 1, 2009 4:32 PM
Maybe scheduling is worse now, but like Panamac, I started the process in March (same rate/term, but with my original lender, Chase) and closed in May before the 90-day rate lock expired. Didn't use a mortgage broker, but called Chase directly. (Actually, a mortgage broker I did call said I wouldn't get a much better rate than what Chase was offering and advised going with my bank.) Maybe I lucked out with my mortgage counselor, but the process went relatively smoothly.
Posted by: TPX at September 1, 2009 4:32 PM
I cant even get a refi appraiser said my place is worth less then what I owe
Posted by: bitter_bubble_buyer at September 1, 2009 5:19 PM
We had a very long closing process. Began in February with a mortgage broker and Chase, and when the original deadline passed in May, they kept the lock-in at 4.8 and started the process again. Finally closed in mid-July, after much waiting. We were told by the broker and the settlement folks that they were simply swamped with the backlog.
Good luck and keep calling them. It will happen.
Posted by: buttermilk channel at September 1, 2009 5:37 PM
You guys must have conforming loans?
Posted by: bitter_bubble_buyer at September 1, 2009 5:44 PM
No, a refi of 225K on a 30 year fixed on an assessed value of 1.1M. Even with all paperwork done in February, it still took forever.
Posted by: buttermilk channel at September 1, 2009 7:07 PM
butter that is just nuts
Posted by: bitter_bubble_buyer at September 1, 2009 7:36 PM
Its pervasive. Our refi started in April, still hasn't closed. They are now asking about saftey repairs and are requesting documentation about exterior work that is not yet completed.
Its Citibank, the lock expired a month ago and they have agreed to cover the extension.
I swear they want to see us walk away because of a low rate/no points situation.
Posted by: Brooklyn11218 at September 1, 2009 7:48 PM
Wow.
Posted by: mopar at September 1, 2009 11:00 PM
hello all,
i have been reading all the comments about refinancing and wanted to add some input here.
firstly to all those who believe that a mortgage broker who works on the wholesale side is better than working with someone who works on the retail side directly for the bank, i hate to differ but their access is very limited and there are almost no more banks who do business with the brokers anymore.
secondly - i work for wells, and my name comes up here from time to time and im glad to say that its only come up for good reasons, therefore i want to explain some of this process to all at least on the wells retail side.
a refi will always take longer then purchases as purchases have timelines that must be adhered to, and at wells we ahve our closing gaurantee as well. a refi can take up to 90 days these day but not much longer, the refi boom has died down a bit and the banks are seeing less volume, today a refi should be not more then 60 days, even with the rates back down to the low 5's and the 5/1 arm rates in the mid 4's, coops are more complex dont get me wrong but if the person you work for knows the guidelines upfront then you should be set, condo's have their own set of guidelines but yet again if the person your working for knows what they are doing and knows what needs to be done and gets all the correct information upfront , then you will be golden.
i know there is much confusion and frustration out there, but you need to make sure the person you are working with is competent, im reading here how people are working with people from Minneapolis,im presuming its out of a call center, why would you want to work with someone from out there, when you should be working with a ny person who knows his stuff.
extensions should be paid by the lender if its the lenders delay, but a broker usually cannot cover that cost where as the bank sales guys like me can have the bank cover it without you ever knowing that there was any cost to begin with.
im always available for questions email me at benjamin.levin@wellsfargo.com
Posted by: Blev9701 at September 2, 2009 12:32 AM
hi ben levin. ironically, i tried to refi directly through Wells at the end of 2008. i called the bank and was told they'd call me back in a couple of days. a couple of days later, a sales manager in queens contacted me. this was one of the least intelligent, least competent people i have ever dealt with. she couldn't even get my name right, calling me "Lisa" on my good faith estimate. she also couldn't explain the closing costs/good faith estimate to me. she didn't seem to have any idea how the most basic numbers/concepts work in a refi (payoff amount, interest charges, timing for last payment under the existing mortgage, etc.), or any idea what was happening with rates in the market. i was also told i would have to pay points for a lock, which didn't happen when i used a mortgage broker. everything was so much more difficult and the process seemed so unnecessarily convoluted that i eventually just gave up (until March when i used a mortgage broker). i think it's funny you're on brownstoner doing damage control for Wells.
Posted by: panamac at September 2, 2009 1:06 PM
We recently refinanced two properties: our primary residence and an investment property. We originally tried to refinance the primary through Chase, the current lender, but they were PAINFULLY SLOW. We simultaneously worked with a broker on the investment, since that's a little tricky. That investment deal closed in 6 weeks!! Chase was still trying to gather paperwork.
Alas, we went with the same broker for the primary residence--he got us a better deal, closed in 4 weeks.
Of course, you may have guessed by now that the investment loan was SOLD BACK TO BofA, and the primary residence loan was SOLD BACK TO CHASE.
Love it... sometimes I think these big banks couldn't find their asses with both hands.
Bottom line, it pays to use a mortgage broker.
Good luck!
Posted by: curiositykilledthecat at September 2, 2009 2:26 PM
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