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September 28, 2009
Does the landlord have to clean?
Just moved into a brand new apartment in Brooklyn Heights, where i'm renting from a private owner. The cleaners (supposedly hired by the landlord to clean the apartment) did an awful job. There's stains on the appliances, dried food stains in the fridge, dirty windows, a grimey shower stall, grease stains on the stove, and cat hair everywhere. Upon our move in, we didn't believe we could unpack given the condition of the apartment and went ahead and used our housecleaner (who we originally brought with us to help us unpack since i was working and my wife was handling the move alone) to clean. Given that i had specifically asked for professional cleaners becuase of my severe cat allergies (we had agreed to this over email) i think it only fair that the landlord defray some of the cost for our own cleaner. We are asking for $70 for the cleaning. The landlord is currently refusing to cover this as she feels we should have contacted her prior to engaging our housecleaner so that she could contact the original cleaners she (supposedly) hired and get them to re-do the apartment.
I see her point, but, ultimately, it's not our fault that her cleaners screwed her. She should be responsible for the cleanliness of the apartment (especially in regards to the cat hair which i could not clean myself) prior to us moving in. Further, it's not reasonable to expect us to stop our move-in and wait for her to contact cleaners, etc, especially not on a Friday afternoon, and especially given that i can't even live in the apartment if there's cat hair everywhere. I think it's only fair she covers this reasonable expense, and handle the issue with the cleaners she hired herself.
If she continues to refuse, do i have any recourse?
Any thoughts welcome!!!
Thanks!
Comments
Both you and the landlord are probably both correct on your issues. What are you paying in rent??? Is $70 significant??? Not a good start to landlord/tenant relationship either way though.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 28, 2009 3:43 PM
The landlady may be telling the truth but she should have checked that the people she hired had done the job properly. I'm a landlady myself & somewhat sympathize w/ her but it's her own fault she was taken advantage of.
However, you've just moved in & it's evidently a fairly intimate building - I'd eat your cost just so you don't start your tenancy w/ an adversarial relationship.
Posted by: Arkady at September 28, 2009 3:44 PM
The rent is $2600/mo, of course $70 isn't substantial, but the fact remains she promised and didn't deliver, the onus is on her. I understand she got taken, but that doesn't absolve her of her responsiblity. I don't want to start off on a bad foot either, but i haven't done anything wrong here, i was just trying to make the apartment habitable, and i can't clean up cat hair on my own, nor would i have been able to enter the apartment!
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 3:51 PM
If you're sticking around I would eat the cost. If you don't care, I bet you could win in small claims court with that email in-hand.
Posted by: corolla at September 28, 2009 3:55 PM
Can you ask to share the cost since both parties were in neglect?
Posted by: coopfornow at September 28, 2009 4:00 PM
But was I in neglect?
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 4:30 PM
I'm inclined to agree that you should have contacted the landlady when you arrived and found the apartment dirty. At the very least she could have taken photographs as evidence that the original cleaners didn't do their job and get a refund. It's kind of like deciding that a dripping tap needs fixing on a Sunday and calling an after hours plumber - you actually have to give the landlady the opportunity to rectify the problem before you go outlaying money and expecting a reimbursement. Given that it's only $70 I would let it slide.
Posted by: bohuma at September 28, 2009 4:36 PM
for once i'm actually on the tenants side of this. i mean, the previous tenants are supposed to clean when they leave...so that in addition to having it professionally cleaned as the landlord claims, it should be spotless! that's a pretty good amount of rent they're paying...bare minimum is it should be clean!
Posted by: CGmodern at September 28, 2009 4:36 PM
Funny thing is, the previous tenant is the landlord! I moved into her apartment after she moved out of the city. Since she moved, she didn't inspect the apartment before moving out, and just expected the cleaners she hired to do their job, and she didn't. I don't blame her personally, but she's responsible for delivery of the apartment as promised.
We also took over 30 pictures of the apartment and sent them to her as evidence. She can't realistically expect that food stains in the fridge is acceptable.
It also sets bad precedent to let this slide, i did nothing wrong here. How can i expect to contact her when she's in a different state and we're in the middle of moving and i can't live with car hair?
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 4:44 PM
And I'm actually on the landlady's side (maybe I'm changing!) It's too small an amount to quibble over principle, and the landlady Does have a point...tenant's should not do anything w/o landlady's permission unless it's an emergency. And a cat allergy is not, regardless of how bad you think it is.
You sound like overly picky tenants and I predict there'll be more issues to come.
btw, cgm, 'previous tenants' NEVER clean beyond minimally...what universe are you in?
Posted by: cmu at September 28, 2009 4:47 PM
So i should be prohibitted from entering my own apartment that i've paid good money for? Through no fault of my own? When she's supposed to have the apartment ready? I'm not even asking for the full reimbursement.
i'm certainly not overly picky, i've never had a problem in over 10 years in new york, this is the first time.
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 4:56 PM
I'm a landlord and I side with the OP, especially in this market. Tenants that are paying a good rent are to be valued. Besides, its just the civilian thing to do to leave a place in good shape. The landlord should just stipulate that in the future, other costs need to be approved before she reimburses. The amount is reasonable to me, especially if I was confronted with photos.
Posted by: Schultz at September 28, 2009 5:05 PM
But the point is, it appears to be a honest mistake...the cleaners screwed up, the landlady did not check (ok, that's her error) and the tenant went ahead and re-cleaned without telling her. And (s)he can't leave it be, for $35.
OP, I've been a landlord for 20 years and I'm almost always on the tenant's side, but you take the cake..."prohibited from entering my own apartment" because of a little dirt?! Please don't come knocking at my door.
Posted by: cmu at September 28, 2009 5:17 PM
a voice of reason! Agree it's the civilian thing to do, we can't expect to stop our move and not unpack our boxes becuase of someone else's mistake, and not expect consequences to those actions.
I'd be more than happy to stip to something like that in the future.
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 5:17 PM
CMU: It's not becuase of the dirt, it's the cat hair. I have severe allergies to cats, and can't be around them or their hair. I clearly expressed that to the landlord prior to moving and confirmed in emails she would have the place professionally cleaned to deal with such an issue.
I agree it's an honest mistake, i never said otherwise, but that doesn't mean she's not supposed to fix her mistake. $70 is a perfectly reasonable cleaning fee (in fact she recommend her previous houseclearner to me for regular use and she charges $80-100 so by her own standards $70 has to be reasonable).
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 5:23 PM
why not suggest that you'll help her get the $$$ back from the other cleaners? and she can use the refund to reimburse you. you also could be passive-aggressive and deduct it from your next rent check, but for what its worth, and though you (tenant) are probably in the right, for $70 it probably is not worth the stress/hassle to fight that much.
Posted by: aishling at September 28, 2009 5:24 PM
Segue: I have 2 cats who have free run of the outside yard, porch and, for all I know, my neighbor's yards.
I wonder if the next time I need a tenant, I should specify 'no cat allergies' in case they demand I restrict my cats from their porch? Or is that illegal under ADA law ;)?
Posted by: cmu at September 28, 2009 5:31 PM
If you have such severe cat allergies, why did you even take this apartment? A once over by your cleaning lady ain't gonna get rid of cat dander. It hides EVERYWHERE.
Posted by: bowl of dicks at September 28, 2009 5:37 PM
I feel like she should be following up with the cleaners herself to get the $$$ to reimburse herself, she certainly deserves it.
I would love to just deduct it from the next rent check, but that would constitute a defualt, would it not?
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 5:38 PM
not removing cat hair from out in the open in inexcusable, it wasn't even hiding!
CMU: the point is that she promised to clean the cat hair and didn't do it. That's not my fault, it's hers. As a landlady, if you promised to do something and didn't come through, and the tenant reacted to that, do you think you'd still be in the right? Even though you didn't do what you promised? If we didn't discuss it upfront (in writing) i wouldn't have a basis for argument.
Posted by: ro at September 28, 2009 5:43 PM
ro, you ain't listening to anybody's opinion anyway, so just deduct the $70 from the rent and tell it to the judge.
Posted by: denton at September 28, 2009 6:35 PM
"life is not always fair" -- move on
Posted by: SenatorStreet at September 28, 2009 7:10 PM
I am pessimistic about any kind of good relationship between you and the landlord going forward. Aside from being duped by her cleaners, she is foolish to not eat the $70 in order to maintain harmony with her new tenant - I mean really! But - the $70 is probably not worth driving yourself nuts over. Just pay it and turn the page. And I guess you probably *should* have said something before taking action.
Posted by: henrycurtis at September 28, 2009 10:35 PM
Dave said it perfect in the first post. For a $2600 rent, $70 is not worth getting a relationship with your new landlord in a tizzy over.
Posted by: Crownlfc at September 28, 2009 10:56 PM
boy, am I glad I didn't rent to you.
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 29, 2009 9:30 AM
i agree with denton. ro isn't really here to debate, just to keep airing same grievances. i can just see ro punching a pillow, blind with rage, thinking my throat could have swelled up. well it didn't.
you need to chill the fuck out. i agree that your landlord did something lame but if you are getting this worked up over 70 bucks, you have the problem. If you can afford a 2600 apt, you probably make almost 70 bucks an hour so it's not about the money and if it's not about the money, be the bigger person, and move on to the next injustice that surely awaits you and bore someone else with it.
Actually, you shoud take that money that you are so pissed about, deduct it from your rent, and pay a therapist to listen to you complain. it's annoying.
Posted by: thatwasmyidea at September 29, 2009 9:54 AM
I think the landlord is right. You should have alerted her immediately so she could rectify the problem. At that point she could have agreed to use your cleaning person. How does the landlord know that your claim is correct?
You could have just told her as an FYI the apartment wasn't clean and we had our own cleaner do the work and given her the chance to pay you back, before demanding reimbursement. Considering she is a private landlord, this is off to a bad start.
Posted by: grilledsardine at September 29, 2009 10:44 AM
Pay the 70 bucks.
Posted by: donatella at September 29, 2009 8:50 PM
I'm also severely allergic to cat dander so I understand how you feel. But I think it's not really setting a precedent to eat this cost. This precise situation is not ever going to happen again and there's no need to begin a renting relationship with this level of conflict. I know, it's the principle of the thing, but escalating this means more difficulty in getting repairs done in a timely way, having her mediate conflict with other tenants, etc. It's just not worth it. And also, why fill a new home with bad memories? If you rented a $2600 apartment with old appliances and cat hair, there must be something you *really* liked about it because you certainly had other options. Enjoy your place and let it go.
Posted by: bitterlikehoney at October 5, 2009 2:38 PM
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