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September 11, 2009
Condo By-Laws
I'm getting ready to put in a bid on a condo, and my question for you all is this: Do you generally review the condo by-laws prior to putting in a bid, or once the offer has been accepted? If it's typical to review them prior to putting in a bid, does the seller's agent provide the buyer directly with a copy of the by-laws, or does it usually go through the buyer's attorney?
Sorry if these questions are juvenile -- I have (obviously) never gone through this process and unfortunately have been trying to learn the ropes in a really, really short period of time! Didn't expect to find the perfect place so quickly, but I did, and I don't have a lot of time to act....
Thanks for your help,
PV
Comments
Unless there is something you are obsessively worried about you should just bid as an offer is not binding. You can and should review the bylaws if your bid is accepted and before you go into contract.
Posted by: Crownlfc at September 11, 2009 1:24 AM
You and your lawyer should review them before you go to contract but, as Crownlfc says, it's really not necessary to do it before you bid. They are important to read because (among other things) they will lay out how common space is divided, which you should check against how the condo has been presented by the broker (eg, if the apartment has basement storage now is that specified in the bylaws?).
But if you're curious to read them now, the condo declaration should be posted on ACRIS, which you can access from the nyc.gov website.
Posted by: fawn at September 11, 2009 10:44 AM
if there are important concerns you should ask before bidding. Things like: Are pets allowed? Are there limitations on sublets? Are there limitations on what times of year I can have work doen on my unit....
that sort of thing if it concerns you.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at September 11, 2009 10:46 AM
If it's new construction, the by-laws and initial house rules are in the offering plan. Personally, I feel the house rules are more likely to impact your quality of life than the by-laws. I think that offering plans also need to be made available to subsequent purchasers, but don't quote me on that. The by-laws describe how the condo is to be governed, but also contain information like whether the condo board can impose fines for breaches of house rules. You want to be careful that you're not buying a coop in condo clothing.
Posted by: bohuma at September 11, 2009 11:05 AM
Don't forget to ask for the house rules. different documents from by laws. You will be surprised at the house rules and the penalty charges if you break them. another interesting read is how much you are charged for day to day repairs.
Try to get a copy of the tenants rental package for subletting. it is all in there. house rules repair charges etc.
None of this has to do with the by laws. get that before ypu bid/ What happens if you don't like the dictatorship way the building is run and all the penalties?
If you don't pay the petty bullshit fines they will put a lis pendens on your condo and drag you to court which is more expensive. Another trick for the building to increase their income. Everyone knows its cheaper to pay the phony fines than go to court.
It is called intimidation by the board. They screw up their ledger and you the owner pays.
In NY it happens all the time. It happened to me twice.
My 2 condos are paid for with no mortgage and I pay my common charges on time and I pay my 2 property taxes one year in advance. I never owed money or took out loans in my life.
No pets, no kids, no musical instruments etc. but they still find ways to harass the shit outta me by digging into my pockets.
In addition to defective repairs made to my units which brings them more money by fixing twice.
I am a single female living alone.
Posted by: Ysabelle at September 11, 2009 11:29 AM
You need to read the entire offering plan. Especially shedule A and B since those tell you the budgets. In my condo, 80 percent of the charges came from the owners, which I thought was strange but then I looked deeper and found the remaining 20 percent of income was from a sprint cell antenna contract the previous owner signed. You can find good and bad things in the entire offering. It pays to read it.
Look at the compososition of the board. Can board members remove another board member by a simple majority vote of the board members or of the entire vote of the building. Thats important. Newer offering plans allow the board members to vote each other out which can make for a very silent oppressive board.
House rules can and usually are amended.
Posted by: bonsavant at September 11, 2009 11:36 AM
You need to read the entire offering plan. Especially shedule A and B since those tell you the budgets. In my condo, 80 percent of the charges came from the owners, which I thought was strange but then I looked deeper and found the remaining 20 percent of income was from a sprint cell antenna contract the previous owner signed. You can find good and bad things in the entire offering. It pays to read it.
Look at the compososition of the board. Can board members remove another board member by a simple majority vote of the board members or of the entire vote of the building. Thats important. Newer offering plans allow the board members to vote each other out which can make for a very silent oppressive board.
House rules can and usually are amended.
Posted by: bonsavant at September 11, 2009 11:36 AM
What the others said. Yes, especially get the House Rules. You just include a lawyers contingency and he'll review it all after your bid is accepted. Sometimes there's a charge for the Blaws and Rules. In my last place where I sold it was $300 and it was a fairly thick package of stuff.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at September 11, 2009 11:37 AM
You need to read the entire offering plan. Especially shedule A and B since those tell you the budgets. In my condo, 80 percent of the charges came from the owners, which I thought was strange but then I looked deeper and found the remaining 20 percent of income was from a sprint cell antenna contract the previous owner signed. You can find good and bad things in the entire offering. It pays to read it.
Look at the compososition of the board. Can board members remove another board member by a simple majority vote of the board members or of the entire vote of the building. Thats important. Newer offering plans allow the board members to vote each other out which can make for a very silent oppressive board.
House rules can and usually are amended.
Posted by: bonsavant at September 11, 2009 11:37 AM
Hey Brownstoners,
This is all great advice -- thank you.
Ysabelle, if you don't mind me asking, what area of the city do you own in? And what kinds of things have they harrassed you about? You mention it's petty stuff, but I'm curious to know more....
Thanks again,
PV
Posted by: PropertyVirgin at September 11, 2009 11:53 AM
I second the recommendation to read the entire offering plan. I came close to buying new construction with outdoor space, and when I read the offering plan, it turned out there was language that could be construed to require me to ask the Board permission to landscape or put a table in my yard! My attorney didn't catch it. We had to get an amendment to the offering plan. It was tedious, but worth it.
Posted by: UnprotectedWrecks at September 11, 2009 12:16 PM
PV...I live in manhattan in a 40 year old high rise.
The bookeeper put my monthly payment in someone elses account which automatically put me in arrears. The bank said the check was cashed and I never got the credit. I chasd them for months over this. What happened was they kept on fining me each month including compounded interest.
Meanwhile i pay on time every month including during this mess. The bills kept getting bigger. The phony lawyer bills started to kick in and the building still continued to harass over their own negligence.
I got fined $1000 for having an overnight visitor in my place.
I was home at the time and alone. Remember this is private property not a dorm or hotel. Another costly mistake.
When I did a very minor renovatio a returnable deposit was required. Two years later they never returned the money when the work was done.
My records are accurate and I keep sending them copies of cancelled checks and they are ignoring it.
Posted by: Ysabelle at September 11, 2009 1:15 PM
Ysabelle, have you consulted your own attorney? I'm not sure I'd recommend suing because if you lose you end up with their attorney's bill as well. But you could try getting them to binding arbitration, or even hire a forensic accountant. It smacks of, though it isn't legally, racketeering. And Napoleon Syndrome.
Posted by: bohuma at September 11, 2009 2:53 PM
"I am a single female living alone."
Ysabelle, can I come over tommorrow night? Such a shame.
Posted by: guest_poster at September 11, 2009 5:40 PM
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