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September 25, 2009
1st Time Renovation Advice?
I just bought an apartment that needs a bathroom and kitchen renovation. (Bathroom immediately; kitchen can wait a few months.) I've never been a homeowner and never done a reno, so I don't know where to start-- do we consult an architect? Can a general contractor advise on design? Anyone else we should consider contacting? What else should we know before we start contacting people for quotes?
Comments
got to figure on what you want to do...what you mean by renovation...'
Starting with bathroom, ceiling...ok as is, need new light fixture?, paint, Do you want to keep any of the tiling in room,,,around tub or on floor?
Do you want/need new tub? toilet, sink/vanity? will all these fixtures remain in same place or you thinking about rearranging (big money). If just want to change fixtures, and retile, and paint don't need an architect. Changing location of plumbing will.
Got to have real concept of what you want done, Go look at home centers, magazines so you know what like and don't.
Check some of the reno blogs on this site for what others did.
Posted by: Petebklyn at September 25, 2009 6:16 PM
We are going through our first bathroom renvoation now. My best advice is to get as detailed a contract with your contactor as you possibly can. It is probably impossible to plan every single detail in advance, and there will be changes and surprises along the way, but the essential thing is that the contract makes as clear as possible what is labor cost for each particular thing (i.e., install new toilet: $800) and what are the costs for the fixtures (e.g., tiles, toilet, sink, vanity, tub, faucets, showerhead, shower body etc.). That way if you decide to go with a different fixture or do something different, it should be easier to adjust the contract price accordingly. Also, for budgetary purposes it's best if you can decide on what fixtures you want in advance and get the contractor to price it out.
Posted by: brad_in_brooklyn at September 25, 2009 6:21 PM
contractors, with some rare exceptions, are not the ones to turn to for design. If you cannot design (that is tile, color, etc) then you need either a designer or an architect.
Posted by: denton at September 25, 2009 7:14 PM
if you are moving any fixture locations you will need an architect..start there...check w/ the condo or coop board for requirements
Posted by: eman1234 at September 25, 2009 9:50 PM
This one contractor I know does the design and building in house, they work well and have been in industry for a while.
Shahab 718-974-6182
Posted by: tanive at September 25, 2009 10:57 PM
Since the bath is 1st on the list go online and to tile stores to see what you like. Believe it or not, you do have an opinion!
Then, you can get into the contractor stuff. You do not need an architect for a friggin' bathroom reno.
Posted by: pattunia at September 26, 2009 2:45 AM
some fixtures can be moved without an architect, legally! Start with figuring out what you want. Look at magazines, books... Have a sense of direction before you consult anyone.
Posted by: pig three at September 26, 2009 7:40 AM
Oh, and thanks pattunia! every where you look eman1234 is giving the most expensive, and often unnecessary advise.
Posted by: pig three at September 26, 2009 7:43 AM
Hello,
There are many routes to design through build. Take your time and explore many options on your own first (magazines, showrooms, samples of finished materials). Most architects do not have a hands on background, and many have issues coordinating details - those details are left to the builder ("field verification" - meaning the builder must verify details in the actual building environment, "shop drawings" - meaning the fully detailed drawings that actually show how everything fits). People who only design may sell you something that simply won't work. I am a big fan of design/builders - people who can design and build, but it all comes down to whether someone excels at building and communicating.
Be patient, get references and make sure you understand the details.
masterbuildernyc@gmail.com
Posted by: masterbuilder at September 26, 2009 9:18 AM
First step is to review your building's alteration agreement and requirements specified therein as far as plans and permits. You'll need to adhere to the requirements of their alteration agreement. If you are demolishing walls or reconfiguring rooms, you will need an architect to prepare & file plans and a permit application. If you are only doing some plumbing fixture relocation/replacement, you might be able to get by with having the Plumber filing an LAA (Limited Alteration Application). It is always best to file for permits in the long run. That way when you go to sell the apartment in the future, you will have approved plans and permits for the renovation. Otherwise, buyer may take several thousand in escrow to cover legalizing your renovation work. Select a Contractor that has a Home Improvement Contractor's License and a Department of Buildings Tracking Number. Both will be required if you need permits.
Posted by: Permitadvisor at September 26, 2009 9:52 AM
Hello my name is Dan and I am a licensed contractor I am intersted in your project if it is still open I have been in business for over 20 yrs. and I am local if you like you can give me a call I can be reached at 718 919-7794 or 718 902-9213 and 646 726-0475 so we can discuss it further.
Thank You,
Dan
Posted by: superdee01 at September 26, 2009 2:55 PM
Actually p3, given the post, eman is spot on.
Posted by: denton at September 26, 2009 5:04 PM
sorry denton, without details he cannot be spot on. The whole project can probably take place without an architect. But without knowing the specifics, we do not know for sure.
Posted by: pig three at September 26, 2009 6:43 PM
plus the post asked "where to start". Starting with an architect is the most expensive way to start and may not even be necessary.
Posted by: pig three at September 26, 2009 6:45 PM
12345,
All these posts scaring you into believing architects are not qualified to provide design services, provide details for construction, or guide you through this process are pure junk. That is exactly what we (myself being a licensed architect) are qualified to do. And others claiming starting with an architect is the most expensive way to start is also ridiculous, considering most architects provide free consultation services, including walkthroughs at the site, describing the entire process to potential clients, and providing estimated costs associated with your renovation. All without costing you a penny. And, if hired, they serve their clients interests throughout the construction process. With all due respect to other posters on this forum, it does not sound like they have ever worked with an architect before...or are looking to serve their own professional interests by attempting to diminish the qualifications of architects.
Do yourself a favor and ask other people in your building for architect, contractor, or design-build recommendations. Entertain all options if you are unsure, and make your own decisions based on the interviews you do...and listen to the other posts on this thread which tell you to review condo/co-op rules and alteration agreements. It's not a complicated process to undertake the work you describe. You just need to find good, responsible professionals to help you through it...the safest way to proceed is, in all honesty, through recommendations from friends, neighbors, or even your managing agent at your building.
Best of luck.
60designers@gmail.com
Posted by: 60designers at September 26, 2009 7:47 PM
I'm in the exact same boat as you, except maybe a few weeks ahead. Closed on my first house 10 days ago, and have been working on the bathroom (and taking down YEARS and LAYERS of wallpaper... ugh) since. The kitchen is up next after the bathroom, again like you, probably in a few months.
Even though I'm a first timer, I am serving as GC for the bathroom reno. I hired a few friends who are out of work construction workers (they do good, solid work, but these are not great times for people in the construction industry) and then found an electrician and plumber through referral. I walked the electricians and plumbers through what I wanted done, and got bids from everyone. I skipped the designer on the bathroom, because I just wanted this one done as quickly and cheaply as possible, so am doing a pretty basic design that I laid out myself. I'll eventually add a second bathroom, and will probably hire a professional designer or architect for that one, and turn the bath I'm currently working on into the guest bath so it doesn't have to be so fancy.
I hired a designer for the kitchen since the kitchen has an odd shape and I thought professional layout help would be good.
I think your approach really depends on what you want in the end. If you want something basic, you can do alot of the legwork yourself and save some $$. Good luck! Renovating is hard work. If I never see wallpaper again, I will die happy.
Posted by: brooklynstyle at September 26, 2009 11:13 PM
I'm 2 weeks into my 1st time co-op reno and it's been going pretty well. Besides the design and details advise written above, I think it would be wise to ask around and find people who have renovated in your new apartment building. Ask them what they had to do to get things started. How was the building staff... what are the building work hours, service elevator and water shut off arrangements? You might get tips on what's behind wall number 2! OR how the electric and plumbing is laid out in your apartment. Ask your neighbors who they used, what was the price, experience and how their place looks and is holding up.
Good luck. oh and when you do start, go every day!
Posted by: icecream at September 27, 2009 5:59 PM
Most of my clients get overwhelmed by the many, many choices of tile, fixtures, etc., that are available. Looking at pictures in magazines that you like and showing them to the designer is a good start. The designer can help you create a budget, talk to the contractor or help you find one, narrow down your choices of materials, take into account all the small details such as location of outlets, etc. as well as assist with the selection of colors, light fixtures, and project management. My cell phone is 347-495-7580, if you would like to ask further questions.
Sincerely, Jane Rosenbaum
www.janeinteriorsnyc.com
Posted by: janeinteriorsnyc at September 27, 2009 10:32 PM
Masterbuilder's comments are pretty good. One of the facts of NYC renovation that seems to only occasionally get mentioned on brownstoner is the challenges many people have with their architects. Granted this is a limited sample, but of my 5 friends and acquaintances who have done extensive renovations in the past couple years 4 of them had significant issues with their architects -- usually issues with not being as organized or as pragmatic about building as one would hope. Get references if you use an architect (or any other tradesperson) and try to find someone you know who has had a good experience with them on a similar project.
Posted by: pmmtenement at September 28, 2009 10:45 AM
Some great suggestions here. I think it totally depends on how much of the design you think you can do yourself. Do you have a REALLY good idea of what you want for both the kitchen and the bath? Colors, tile, replacement of fixtures, appliances, cabinets. etc? If you do have a good idea of what you want, can you document it in a detailed way that a contractor would be able to do the work correctly? Can you do scale drawings that show where things will move or be built or be installed? If you are doing a simple renovation - just replacing what is there with something new, and you know exactly what you want, you can probably go it on your own. But if you want to change stuff, you might want to go with an architect.
My first kitchen reno, I hired an architect who was just starting out on his own after working for someone else, so he was willing to give me a good price on his services so he could build his portfolio. He had enough experience though that he knew what he was doing.
It was great because he gave me new design ideas that I hadn't thought of, he made great drawings that the contractor was able to follow and not make mistakes and he knew all sorts of little details in ordering stuff that I never would have thought of (stuff like the back or side panel of cabinets that are exposed on an island). He also knew woodworkers who were able to do custom work for me.
One other suggestion: Do both of your renos either at the same time or back to back, especially if you are going to be living there when it's happening. It's a PIA to pack and move all of your stuff to renovate, clean, put it all back when it's done, then do it all again when you go to renovate the next space. If you are doing any sort of demo, plaster dust gets everywhere, so it's much better to only have to clean it up once. If you can afford it, do them both at the same time.
Posted by: kimmc at September 28, 2009 1:33 PM
"looking to serve their own professional interests by attempting to diminish the qualifications of ..."
60designers, is that not what you just did with your post?
For the record, I have had experience with architects. Like others mentioned, very few have hands on knowledge. Fewer with original design skills.
Another thing I know for sure, if an architect is not necessary for the project and is removed from the total cost, the total cost will be significantly cheaper. Free consultation or not!
FWIW, I enjoy your honest straight forward approach with most of your post here on BS. Some other "professionals" like to instill fear in first timers or others looking for a little knowledge on a subject.
Posted by: pig three at September 28, 2009 2:11 PM
"60designers, is that not what you just did with your post?"
Pig Three,
Actually, no I did not. My advice was for them to ask friends, neighbors, and/or the building management for referrals. I also suggested they ask for not just architect recommendations...but for design/build firms and/or contractors for advice and to make up their own minds based on their interviews. I did not suggest they contact me or use my services. I have never received a job as a result of my posts here, but I do receive questions regularly via email which I am happy to answer if I know the answers.
I'm really sorry you, and a few others here, have had problems with your architects in the past. Some of us in this profession work hard to deliver good work to our clients, so I think it's important to offer an opposing view to the posts that attempt to diminish the qualifications of Architects in general. That was the intention of my post. Nothing more.
Posted by: 60designers at September 28, 2009 5:18 PM
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