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August 19, 2009
Separating Lots
I'm looking at a property that used to be two separate lots, one was 12x100 and the other 30x100, but there is only a building on the bigger lot and the smaller one is vacant. The lots were legally combined and this property is noted on the Dept of Finance site as one tax lot. My question is: Is it possible to separate them back into two lots again? How hard is that process? Where to even begin? Thanks!
Comments
It is possible to separate them but why would you?? What could be built on a 12' wide lot??? Wouldn't the property be more valuable if you could possibly (?) get a curb cut and put a driveway and huge yard on the land?
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 19, 2009 8:13 AM
...and the minimum lot width allowable in a partition is 17 feet. What size lot were you hoping to make?
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at August 19, 2009 9:48 AM
There's a 12-ft house on 1st across from the 321 yard, two windows wide; would love to see the interior.
The first house I saw was 13x40 center stair. Quite livable, in a way bedrooms were more proportional than mine, which are 16.5x16.
Posted by: cmu at August 19, 2009 9:49 AM
This is a marvelous piece on living large in small spaces:
http://tinyurl.com/mf3x9c
Posted by: Arkady at August 19, 2009 10:02 AM
Shahn Anderson,
Where did you see the sitpulation that the minimum lot width allowable in a partition is 17 feet? I've not heard that before.
Posted by: Boerum Hill at August 19, 2009 10:09 AM
I just did a lot merger. I made a mistake of getting an expeditor that was only familiar with the Dept. of Finance, & not the Dept. of Buildings. I would recommend that you get an expeditor/Architect/Engineer that is familiar with both agencies since the lot apportionment needs to be done CORRECTLY by both agencies.
It took a week to do the lot merger with the Dept. of Finance. I am currently working with an Architect to do the remaining work with the Dept. of Buildings. I guess a good timeframe would be 2 weeks if you hire someone that is familiar with both agencies.
The process is not hard if you hire someone that knows what they are doing.
You should begin by hiring an expeditor/Architect/Engineer.
Posted by: Miss Breukelen at August 19, 2009 10:10 AM
Oops. The minimum lot width is 18' for new lots being created. It's ZR 23-32. Look it up in the zoning resolution.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at August 19, 2009 10:16 AM
Actually, dibs, I'm not sure if it is permissible. The code states that the minimum lot width, at least in a residential district, is 18 feet.
There is a special provision for existing smaller lots, wherein a single or two-family home may be built upon existing small lots if it "was owned separately and individually from all other adjoining tracts of land, both on December 15, 1961, and on the date of application for a building permit". The owner might be able to divide the lot and then apply for the permit if she/he can satisfy the ownership requirement, but it could be interpreted that once the lot is combined to form a compliant lot, it cannot be subdivided to create a non-compliant one. That's one for which I'd recommend a pre-consideration, or at the very least an expediter that's already done exactly that.
On the other hand, a few weeks ago, I did write a whole diatribe on the potential of building in such a lot (http://www.brownstoner.com/forum/archives/2009/08/the_value_of_an.php). Come think of it now, that thread was started by the original poster, yanks21.
Yanks, if you're interested in pursuing this route, I would be happy to discuss it. Please call me directly.
Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP
Urban Pioneering Architecture
(917) 593-3038
Posted by: JimHill at August 19, 2009 10:16 AM
BH - check zoning code section 23-30: Lot area and width regulations: 23-32 & 23-33.
Posted by: JimHill at August 19, 2009 10:18 AM
Min. lot width for most Residential districts is 18' but could be more - it depends on the district...
Checking the minimum lot sizes is a good place to start but by no means all inclusive of the process....
You essentially have to file a couple of jobs (a subdivision and also new C/O job for the lot with existing building).
In other words, not only do both lots need to comply with minimum lot area/width standards - but you have to prove that the subdivision isn't creating a new noncompliance for the existing building -
Your lot area will be reduced significantly for that lot so the allowable floor area and lot coverage will decrease as well. You also need to look at yard provisions...
Posted by: young archi at August 19, 2009 10:27 AM
OP here-- to be clear, my thought was to put it back to the original size lots of 30x100 and 12x100. But tt sounds like it might be hard to recreate that 12x100 though? Hmmm... I was thinking you could build one of those 12' wide houses, if it was possible. I've been in a couple 12" wides and they are actually kind of cute and cozy.
Posted by: yanks21 at August 19, 2009 10:48 AM
12' house may be feasible but considering that you cannot have a 12' lot, it doesn't make sense unless side yards are required...
how wide is existing house to remain?
Posted by: young archi at August 19, 2009 11:25 AM
OP--- The smaller lot actually might be 12.5' wide. The existing house is full 30' wide on a 30' wide lot.
Posted by: yanks21 at August 19, 2009 11:35 AM
2 weeks....funniest thing I have heard all week. This will take a minimum of 6 months to get finalized with new lots and blocks and maps needed....
Posted by: smeyer418 at August 19, 2009 12:00 PM
Contact Complete Condo Services at 718.875.9100....for a week turn-around on tax lot merger. "6 months to get finalized with new lots & blocks & maps..."-that's a funny thing because as per TOPO(718.802.3816), the office that issues new addresses, it takes a matter of days, if all parties do what they have to do....SMEYER418 may be you, or the person you hired didn't do what they had to do.
Posted by: Miss Breukelen at August 19, 2009 12:54 PM
Miss Breukelen - you are mistaken if you think this can get turned around in two weeks. Yeah, maybe topo can do what they have to do that quickly, but there is no way you're getting an amended C/O on the 30' wide house in 2 weeks.
6 months minimum.
btw - this is not a merger of tax lots.
this is subdivision of zoning lots.
very, very different animals.
Posted by: young archi at August 19, 2009 1:17 PM
A little confused by these posts because I am aware of a 16"+ lot that was recently subdivided from from a larger lot. The newly seaparated lot had been part of a larger lot since the 1940s.
Posted by: Boerum Hill at August 19, 2009 2:50 PM
16'?
What was the address? it isn't permitted by Zoning....a variance or reconsideration could have been issues but i would like to see how that was done...
Posted by: young archi at August 19, 2009 3:05 PM
merging lots is a different animal from splitting one up. I stand by the six months. You know if you answer a different question that the original poster asked you can get someone to do it in five minutes but that still won't change the answer to the question the poster asked. I helped someone who posts here to get a lot and block corrected-it had to do with them using an informal address that was attached wrongfully to an incorrect lot and block. They had fought with two departments for over a year. It took six months to get corrected and the intersession of the commissioner's office.
Posted by: smeyer418 at August 19, 2009 4:11 PM
agreed with smeyer418.
would still like to find out more from 'Boerum Hill' poster...
Posted by: young archi at August 19, 2009 5:03 PM
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