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August 14, 2009
Noxious Neighbor Help
Our neighbor seems to be developing a car repair business, in his driveway, which involves cars idling for long periods and the exhaust wafting into our home. We have told him on numerous occasions that the idling cars are causing us discomfort, and sometimes he responds in the short run by turning off the car. But our concerns have no lasting effect on him because obviously this is how he is supplementing his income (in addition to the illegal basement apartment and the questionable daycare business, but I digress). Yes, of course, we should call 311, but I'm aware of the downsides of outing your neighbor, plus I'm skeptical that there would be any enforcement. So, any other suggestions?
Comments
What could be the downside of CO poisoning? I had a similar problem with a commercial truck parking lot next door. Refrigeration trucks wold run all night under our bedroom window. I set up some CO detectors and opened the windows which set them off immediately. Called 911 and got 2 engine companies in a matter of minutes. They measured the air and found no discernible levels at that time, but never the less just to be safe they went next door and broke into 5 trucks and turned them off. The point is don't bother with 311 go directly to 911. The FDNY takes that kind of stuff pretty seriously. You're right about 311 not enforcing anything and there is no intermediate step between 311 and 911. I'm not sure what repercussions you expect, a dirty look perhaps? The guy is already killing your brain cells.
Posted by: modsquad at August 13, 2009 10:21 PM
If polite conversations haven't worked (which is an excellent first step by the way) I don't see what other alternative you have than to call 311 or take Mopar's suggestion above and call 911. Maybe try one more polite conversation if you wish, but be prepared to go Mopar's route for some real results.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 14, 2009 8:51 AM
I agree with the posters above about having a polite convo. Try one more time, explaining the situation that their fledgling auto repair business is causing your family discomfort. If your neighbor doesn't stop completely, I would check what type of zone you are in, make sure it's 100% residential. I would lodge a complaint with 311 citing zoning problems with a business operating illegally. I would also call 911.
FDNY is great and they don't take these things lightly
Posted by: gemini10 at August 14, 2009 9:06 AM
i think it is technically illegal for a vehicle to idle longer than 3 minutes.
Posted by: Return of Randolph at August 14, 2009 10:49 AM
"i think it is technically illegal for a vehicle to idle longer than 3 minutes." Why is that? I have that problem all the time -- garden apartment and buses hang outside with motor running, especially in the summer.
Posted by: househunt at August 14, 2009 11:10 AM
I have the same issue on my street with a Rapid Armor terminal outside my building. They let their trucks idle constantly, and worse--I live in a school zone. Return to Ralph, it IS illegal to idle more than 3 minutes in NYC, and no more than 2 minutes in a school zone. I'm still trying to decide the best way to approach them, because I also think 311 would be a waste of time.
Posted by: ktdd at August 14, 2009 11:20 AM
Idling vehicles are illegal because they are a serious health issue. City kids get asthma because of idling cars. Prioritizing the needs of the many over the needs of the few, Rob, is what city living is all about.
The last thing you want to do is frame it as an issue of your personal discomfort. That strategy makes people like Rob make decisions and statements that work against the good of everyone, because they've been personally irritated by what they feel is your personal tenderness.
The most effective thing to do is impersonally lean on the law and law enforcement, and tell idling drivers in a "hey buddy trying to help you out" kind of way that the police have been giving out a lot of tickets for idling on this street lately. They know how expensive a ticket is, and will thank you for telling them to turn off their engine.
Surely there's a similar strategy you can use with your neighbor.
Posted by: vanburenproud at August 14, 2009 11:32 AM
Tough shit. Buy a fan.
He'll stop when the weather gets cooler or it rains. It is his driveway, and as long as he isn't doing anything explicitly illegal.
BTW: he's not idling the car -- he's testing it or using it to charge the battery. That's allowed.
Stop being a nanny.
Posted by: thwackamole1 at August 14, 2009 11:38 AM
Thanks most of you for your helpful comments. I am definitely going to give the polite conversation another go -- we are generally on polite terms and of course I don't want to start a war with a neighbor. There's a certain beauty to the CO detector idea and maybe I'll give that a go. He might take our complaints more seriously if he knew that the fumes were literally setting off alarms.
Posted by: Back40 at August 14, 2009 1:57 PM
OMG, your neighbor won't care about your CO2 meter... framing the issue selfishly, in terms of your house, your comfort, your health is a one-way ticket to being ignored/ridiculed.
Posted by: vanburenproud at August 14, 2009 3:03 PM
Your right vanburenproud, the neighbor won't care how much club soda you put in your spritzer. That's a personal choice and frankly none of his business!
Posted by: modsquad at August 14, 2009 4:44 PM
also in most areas a car repair business violates the zoning law....check with you community planning board. They should be able to help you. This problem pops up every once in a while in almost every neighborhood. Our block had one until the community affairs officer from the local PD precinct stopped by and told them to stop.... and they did.
The fine for over 3 minute idling is up to $250 or more and is a high priority for NYC(the money and stopping it). Again call 311.
Posted by: smeyer418 at August 14, 2009 5:31 PM
Hilarious pickup on my error, modsquad. Apologies... I meant CO meter.
Posted by: vanburenproud at August 14, 2009 5:37 PM
And to clarify further, my point is a rhetorical one. It's not persuasive to talk to someone who's fixing cars in their driveway for money about your comfort. It creates a very stupid conflict in his mind: you're threatening his *livelihood* because you are *uncomfortable*?
He's not uncomfortable, and he's closer to the fumes than you are. Who wouldn't respond to that with some version of "f*** you?"
In order to be persuasive, you have to figure out how to align your approach with his interests. This is about money for him. The fines are money. Getting shut down means no more money. The fact that what he's doing is illegal threatens him. You shouldn't be threatening him because he's already got troubles! You should be figuring out how to help him in a way that also gets him to stop idling cars in your driveway. You can fake help him (ie, help him "avoid a fine" by telling him that you saw the cops when you didn't) or help him for real (ie, help his wife make her business legal and/or profitable)...
...but the bottom line is that people hear you better if you are helping them.
Posted by: vanburenproud at August 14, 2009 5:59 PM
What are you smoking vanburenproud?
Posted by: modsquad at August 14, 2009 9:59 PM
Cars are the worst part of living in Brooklyn. The borough seems to be filled with rude, dangerous, menacing obnoxious drivers who idle their cars (mostly SUV's) and consider it their right to be jerks. If the person who is complaining has a car, they should first get rid of theirs to collectively help the air I'M breathing (I don't care what you say, you don't need a car in Brooklyn, it's just a 2000 lb piece of fiberglass luxury), then call 311 and have the inconsiderate polluter shut down. If they don't own a car, good thing.
Posted by: Epiphany at August 15, 2009 9:46 AM
Modsquad, perhaps I'm being unclear, but I think I'm making a straightforward point about how to get what you want without creating a conflict.
Haven't you ever found an employee that's not working out a job that's better fit instead of firing them? Or offered someone a plastic bag so that they could pick up their dog shit?
There are a million ways to help people do what you want them to do instead of engage in a conflict. In this scenario, it's a good idea to try this strategy because it sucks to fight with neighbors, and because it will work better. It's easy to dislike someone who's being sensitive about your livelihood. But it's hard to dislike someone who's helping you.
Posted by: vanburenproud at August 15, 2009 3:54 PM
OP is asking for concrete advice not philosophical platitudes. To see moral equivalency in every conflict is intellectually lazy and cowardly.
Posted by: modsquad at August 15, 2009 4:33 PM
Um... what are you smoking?
Posted by: vanburenproud at August 15, 2009 6:12 PM
If the co detector was tied to Op's home security system, someone in Arkansas will call the fire dept every hour or so until the air is clear.
The Op can then breath fresh air and blame the insurance company if asked. Done deal.
Posted by: jack slade at August 16, 2009 11:53 PM
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