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August 26, 2009
No C of O
I am shopping around for a rehab 2 family property, and I came across a candidate. The first weird thing is that the building does NOT have C of O on the NYC Buildings website. It seems it never had one. (It was built in the 1890's) Is this possible? Is this common? What are the implications?
Comments
It is very common for these old buildings not to have a C of O.
No implications, not to worry. Grandfathered.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at August 26, 2009 1:26 PM
It happens quite often in NYC. If they are being taxed as a 2 fam the banks will consider it a 2 fam.
-Adam Dahill
adamdahill@gmail.com
Posted by: Adam Dahill at August 26, 2009 1:34 PM
no need for a C of O on houses from the early 1900s. someone keep me on honest, prior to 1930?
Posted by: guikazoid at August 26, 2009 2:04 PM
I've seen some old CofOs from the 1920's, but their mostly for commercial rather than 2 family.
I suspect a lot of brownstone row houses that are now two family were once one family plus cook and maid. Up until the crash of 1929 and the unemployment it created, it was quite common for ordinary middle class families to have a cook and a maid to do the housework - they were mostly immigrant women who worked until they got married. There were precious few job opportunities for immigrant women in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Posted by: bohuma at August 26, 2009 2:44 PM
But if you change the number of units, you have to get of C of O.
It's much easier if you find a project where the DOB records match the number of units you plan to have.
Posted by: IronBalls at August 26, 2009 3:33 PM
The DOB website's CofO scan is not a true indicator of the building's units. You should initially look at the number of gas and electric meters in the building, since their original installation would have been based on some kind of previous CofO evidence. The true way is to go the DOB record room at 210 Joralemon Street and see what's in the building's file (bring alot change with you for the copier!). I've found a CofO there for a building that was not scanned in on the DOB website.
Posted by: JPD at August 26, 2009 3:39 PM
It is very common. This is Brooklyn. Traditionally, to most home owners, the term "DOB paperwork" referred to foldable currency.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at August 26, 2009 3:45 PM
Bohuma - I think COs started in the 1920s. If the occupancy and use did not change between then and now, there was no need to get a CO.
Posted by: WBer at August 26, 2009 4:47 PM
If you are going to rehab the building you will have to file for a new for a C of O when you are finished the work. As it is a rehab project the banks probably won't care how many units it currently is as they are not figuring in any potential rental income at the moment - just that it will be an owner occupied building.
However, if you are trying to close on it as a two family then you need to prove that it was in fact a legal two family - separate meters, means of egress, number of kitchens & bathrooms etc. DOB does not go by how it is taxed.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at August 26, 2009 4:48 PM
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