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August 21, 2009
"Livable" Cellars?
I walked through a fixer-upper this morning and as we were standing in the fully subterranean cellar, the agent kept telling me that all I'd need to do is tile it to make a great rec room and have five floors of livable space.
I know it is a terrible idea (it is a small basement. The furnace and hot water heater and maybe some storage shelves are all I'd want down there.) but I'm wondering if it is even legal for him to tell me I could make this subterranean space "livable"?
Comments
It can certainly be made "livable." Caves are livable as well. It just can't be made "legal" or "countable" floorspace.
Brokers tend to exaggerate. :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at August 21, 2009 11:34 AM
there is a difference between "recreation room" livable and "bedroom/kitchen" livable. You prolly need to check with DoB on the definitions. But as far as I know underground bunker will not go under any of these two categories.
Here is a brilliant idea - call it "fallout shelter" and put beds in it. If inspectors will come in and find your sleeping in it - tell them this was an emergency excersise. You do not need CofO for fall out shelter - just a black and yellow sign on the door :)
Posted by: bobjohn at August 21, 2009 1:04 PM
I'm getting ready to make a sheet called "preferred modes of communication for brokers" that will include "do not talk to me about what could be done with the cellar if I can touch the cellar ceiling without reaching."
Also, when I say "You really have to stop referring to the cellar as potentially livable space," you really should stop. At least in my presence. I don't care what you tell the next guy.
And ... um ... really? I mean you can talk like that and I can make an offer based on your unaccountably distorted vision and then I can bring in a contractor to give me an estimate on the impossible and then, after I've wasted your time, I can come to terms with the fact that this cannot be what I want it to be.
I'm just whining, but I do appreciate you all humoring me as I do.
Posted by: serpentor at August 21, 2009 1:29 PM
Ah, brokers. Gotta love 'em.
Posted by: jland at August 21, 2009 1:44 PM
I don't necessarily see what is questionable legal about saying you could finish off the basement and using as a rec room. Not claiming you could add an apt down there or new bath bed or kitchen. I mean - you go down there to check your furnace...what do you think would be so illegal to go down and play pingpong.
Am assuming this is a 1 or 2 family house.
Owner of building next to me which is a 4 family CofO is finishing off that level and hoping to duplex it with garden level apt...That I doubt is legal at all (since doesnt have permit to do)...and thinking about calling about it.
But don't want to start trouble and I doubt he would ever let inspector in anyway.
Posted by: Petebklyn at August 21, 2009 1:57 PM
What PB says, you could do any number of things with it that do not involve sleeping but that would free up more space in the rest of the house. Media room, game room, library... all of course assuming it's dry.
Posted by: denton at August 21, 2009 4:43 PM
Hee hee, fallout shelter.
Posted by: mopar at August 21, 2009 5:38 PM
Architect here. A recreation room is a very specific entity with the DOB. It is not considered habitable space because it does not meet light and air requirements. It is allowed to have a powder room with toilet and sink but no shower or tub. It cannot be used for a sleeping room or any other room considered "habitable space" by the DOB: kitchen , dining, living, etc. Afew more esoteric conditions but those are the big ones.
Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP
Urban Pioneering Architecture
Posted by: JimHill at August 21, 2009 7:27 PM
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