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August 19, 2009
Landlord Problem
My girlfriend and I have been renting a 2BR in Prospect Heights for the past 18 months at 1,800/mo. When we moved in we paid first month's, last month's, security (1,800) and a brokers fee (1,800) to the super/landlord, (even though our friend who lived in the building found us the place.)
Now I have to move for a job in another city but my girlfriend is staying and searching for a roommate. Our super/landlord tells us he will have to collect an $800 broker's fee (half the rent) from the new tenant upon their moving in.
We asked for him to put this in writing and he refused. There is nothing in our lease about adding new names to the lease or the fees they have to pay in order to move in.
The real estate company to whom we send our rent checks each month, and who owns the building, is not at all involved in the day-to-day operations here.
Is our super/landlord's request for a fresh broker's fee totally bogus? Any ideas or tips on how we can fight it?
Thanks much!
Comments
I say bogus. Any tenant is allowed to have a roommate.
Posted by: Petebklyn at August 19, 2009 10:29 AM
Whoops - the landlord/super is actually charging a $900 fee (half the rent).
Posted by: pheighter at August 19, 2009 10:29 AM
Is he even really a broker?
Check the NYC tenant law regulations concerning roommates. Here's the link:
http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/faq/roommates.html
In short, you may have a roommate!
I saw nothing on "broker's fees" but my feeling is that you do not even need to put the person's name on the lease if you don't want to. If you do, it seems as though it becomes a "vacancy" lease, and that might be his loophole. If he insists, pass it along.
Posted by: Minmin at August 19, 2009 10:30 AM
Whose name is on the lease? I'm not sure but it may make a difference.
Posted by: Arkady at August 19, 2009 10:38 AM
Thanks for the responses everyone. Not sure if the apt is rent-stabilized, would that make a difference? I also don't think the super is a broker as the line for "broker" on our lease is blank and he's obviously not third-party.
Posted by: pheighter at August 19, 2009 10:39 AM
We're both on the lease.
Posted by: pheighter at August 19, 2009 10:41 AM
he ripped you off the first time so f course he is gonna try to rip you again. stop getting ripped off man!
Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 10:51 AM
dont let him get away with this. as mentioned earlier, he ripped you off the first time.
Posted by: landlord at August 19, 2009 10:53 AM
This seems incredibly wrong. I would tell him that it's not going to get paid. If he refuses to put it in writing, he has no way of going after you. I would just not pay it and see what happens. He'll probably call a few times then give up, because other than harassing you for a bit there's nothing that he can do.
Posted by: CG_ups at August 19, 2009 10:56 AM
Don't pay him NOTHING.
Posted by: Miss Breukelen at August 19, 2009 10:56 AM
It's possible that he can find some way to chisel $900 out of you, but you can't legally collect broker's fees if you're not a licensed broker. Not to say that they're not paid as blackmail as a formality, but...
Posted by: jland at August 19, 2009 10:59 AM
I'd tell your super/landlord to go to hell if he gives you a problem once the new roommate moves in. He is not a broker and is not entitled to a commission everytime someone moves in or out of the building. If he were charging you a small moving fee for freight elevator use or something like that (i.e. less than $100) and it was predetermined in the lease you signed before occupancy, then he might have some type of an argument.
All that being said, since he refuses to put anything in writing, he will probably not take you to housing court, but he sounds like the type that will try to make your life in the building very difficult. Good luck.
Posted by: setancre at August 19, 2009 11:03 AM
Of course this is bullshit. But it's key money. This has been going on in New York real estate for 150 years. I wouldn't live in a place that charged key money, but apparently thi poster will. You made your bed and now you're going to have to lay in it. Pay the money or find a new apartment. IF you don't pay there is no end to the misery this guy will bring to your door.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at August 19, 2009 11:11 AM
I'd keep notes on all the interactions you have w/ him. I'd also cc the owner w/ any substantive correspondence. You want to have good documentation if the whole thing escalates w/ him later - if he treats you differently from other tenants, etc.
Posted by: Arkady at August 19, 2009 11:14 AM
I don't have much time, but will say this: The law/method for qualifying a roommate in NYC is VERY specific. The link Minmin provided is a good start, and you can google to read more. Follow requirements precisely. Document your interactions and send correspondence by both regular snail AND certified mail. Make sure YOU are well protected in any agreement you sign with a roommate, because any headache that might develop will be yours and girlfriend's alone to resolve (i.e., LL cannot and will not intervene). As to LL fee, he *might* have some sort of exclusive contract with a realtor that made the first payment necessary (i.e., fee due to broker for rental during period of contract, regardless of whether broker brings tenant), but the current attempt to charge a fee for roommate is entirely bogus. Read the requirements for notifying a LL of roommate and follow precisely.
Posted by: vinca at August 19, 2009 11:16 AM
Thanks everyone. This is really helpful.
Posted by: pheighter at August 19, 2009 11:24 AM
You refer to the person demanding the money as your super/LL, but also state that you send your rent to the real estate company that owns the building. If the real estate company owns the building, that means the super is not the landlord, he's just a super. Can the super take you to court? No, he has no real property/contractual relationship with you, since the lease is with the real estate company. Can he make your life unpleasant since he's the super? Sure. But you can also speak to the rental company and verify whether they know he's doing this. I bet they have no clue.
Posted by: talknerdytome at August 19, 2009 11:26 AM
I agree it is key money, and illegal. It also sounds like he's not the landlord at all, merely a super. Call the real landlord (the ones you send the check to) and let them know what he's up to... there's a real chance they won't be happy that he's selecting tenants based on who will pay him a bribe.
Posted by: Kris at August 19, 2009 11:30 AM
Dude, the super/landlord shafted you on the first 1800. Why do you guys enable to this to happen to you? I hope you've learned. Get your girl TFO of there! The rental market is imploding. The broker's fee system is a massive racket for those who fall for it. A fee is only deserved if it is legal and exclusive.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at August 19, 2009 11:31 AM
First find out if the apartment is rent stabilized. If there is a minimum of 3 apartments in the building it might be.
If it is stabilized it is easy to resolve.
Posted by: Ysabelle at August 19, 2009 11:31 AM
is East New York youre landlord? Slumlord
Posted by: brickoven at August 19, 2009 11:37 AM
generally 6 apts to be rent stabilize. not 3.
Posted by: Petebklyn at August 19, 2009 11:43 AM
Sorry, read too fast, replied too fast and missed the distinction between super/LL/management company. Absolutely correspond with management company only and include details re: any "broker's fees" previously paid and/or currently demanded. There are specific limitations to right to a roommate, but whether stabilized apartment is probably not key to your query.
Posted by: vinca at August 19, 2009 11:49 AM
You know what? I absolutely agree with BHO on this one. Unless you ABSOLUTELY love your apartment, go shopping for a new apartment if you can afford to. But it sounds as though swinging too full rents is a bit much at this time so it may not be an option. But it doesn't hurt to look.
Posted by: Minmin at August 19, 2009 11:58 AM
https://appsext7.dos.state.ny.us/nydos/selSearchType.do
The first step anyone should take is to search the person's name in the city data base to see if they have a real estate broker or sales license. If they dont, then they are legally not entitled to collect a fee.
Posted by: Shoots and Leaves at August 19, 2009 11:59 AM
Just curious, what are your cross streets in Prospect Heights? I have a 2br as well with a lease coming up. Paying slightly more on Underhill and Park Pl. Relatively newly renovated ground floor.
Posted by: Shoots and Leaves at August 19, 2009 12:02 PM
What is a super/landlord?
Neither the super OR the landlord can collect a fee.
Only a licensed real estate broker or one of his licensed agents can collect a fee.
And of course you don't need to pay a fee to change roommates. That's nuts . . .
Posted by: IronBalls at August 19, 2009 12:33 PM
sounds like extortion to me. If your bldg is rent-stabilized (6+ units) it's totally illegal. I was a super for 7 years and a LL for the past 5 and I've never heard of any such "fee". If he can't produce something in writing tell him to take a hike. And definitely get the management company involved. You should fight this. I highly doubt he has any legal recourse either, without proof of it in writing and signed by you which, judging from your post, is not an issue.
Posted by: herkimermaid at August 19, 2009 12:42 PM
This is the key line: "We asked for him to put this in writing and he refused."
What is and isn't legal depends on whether or not you're rent stabilized, but anything that isn't in writing is bs.
So you should put it in writing to the people you pay your rent to. Make sure they know about the first round of key money too. It is definitely *not* legal.
Posted by: serpentor at August 19, 2009 1:22 PM
If your building has 4 or more units, you have the right to sublease your apartment with the landlord's consent, but the landlord may not unreasonably withhold his consent. Here, you would be subleasing because you are transferring an interest that is less than your entire interest in the property (you are renting out a room while your gf stays, correct?). I've not looked into the issue of what factors make the withholding of consent "reasonable", but failure to pay a broker's fee may not be reasonable because such fees are meant to be compensation for the broker's work in placing the person in the apartment and here your landlord isn't doing any such work.
See the link below for the text of Sec. 226-b(2) of the NY real property law, as posted on the NY State legislature website at http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS.
You might want to write your landlord a letter attaching this provision. Or, you might just want to suck it up to avoid conflict with the landlord, and tell the new roommate that she has to pay the fee. Good luck.
Posted by: Count Chocula at August 19, 2009 2:35 PM
Stabilized or not, is besides the point. This guy isn't allowed to collect a commission if he isn't licensed. Period, AND ITS doubly shady to collect an additional fee on an apt that has already been rented.
Posted by: Crownlfc at August 19, 2009 4:12 PM
I think the most your super/LL/whoever can charge you is a nominal administrative fee to change the lease. I paid $35 to get a new lease drawn up when one roommate was leaving and a new one was taking over. Anything more than that is extortion!
Posted by: brooklynstyle at August 19, 2009 5:21 PM
In the first place what this person is doing is illegal.
You have to be a licensed real estate salesperson or broker to collect a brokers fee for a transaction involving real property (sale or lease).
The only way this could have been legal is if some sort of Finders Fee agreement was signed.
If you know he is not licensed he needs to refund your fee. Here is the link to the public search: https://appsext7.dos.state.ny.us/nydos/nydosmainMenu.do;jsessionid=EFABNKDIAHKP
PS: My landlord is a real estate broker and did not charge us a fee.
Posted by: kdabrowski at August 19, 2009 8:41 PM
Show him this thread : )
And find a better apartment for less. I have neighbors in PS with great rentals who had a lot of trouble renting and ended up dropping their price several times just to get them occupied. These are not the times to have horrible LLs when you can have great ones in a nicer apartment for less.
Posted by: jland at August 20, 2009 10:47 AM
Wow, kdabrowski -- thanks for the link. That is a great resource to know about.
Posted by: serpentor at August 21, 2009 1:30 PM
as a landlord i say move out you don't need to help jerks like that make money, there is plenty of places in brooklyn and ph.
Posted by: armchairwarrior at August 21, 2009 1:44 PM
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