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August 25, 2009
Labor Cost for Kitchen Reno
My husband and I recently bought a co-op in Brooklyn and are doing a basic kitchen renovation. We are not moving walls, changing the location of any electrical or moving any plumbing. We will just be installing new cabinets, new appliances and new flooring. I know that each job will vary based on complexity, etc., but I am interested to hear what people think we should be paying our contractor for labor and costs. Any thoughts regarding the range of what we can expect would be much appreciated.
Comments
Btwn $3,000.00- to 5,000.00 depending on how large your kitchen is.
Posted by: Gowanus_Bklyn at August 25, 2009 10:36 AM
a lot depends on where the cabinets are coming from.
if the contractor is supplying the cabinets, it's one price.
if you are supplying the cabinets it's a whole lot more.
flooring is often a separate contractor and prices will vary widely depending on the surface.
Posted by: guywithahouse at August 25, 2009 11:06 AM
I was going to say $3-5000 sounds high but if that includes an electcian, plumber and materials then it's actually a realistic range.
Posted by: herkimermaid at August 25, 2009 11:08 AM
Architect here. It's not totally clear what you're asking for when you say "labor and costs." What is the "and costs" referring to? Materials? Fixtures? Accessories? Plumber filing fees (because you do need to file a plumbing repair application for this scope with the DOB)? Will a new waterproof membrane be installed (I assume so)? Is it custom cabinetry or off-the-shelf cabinetry? How large is the kitchen?
We need more info to answer your question. G_B's response is very ambitious even if it's strictly labor costs.
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 11:23 AM
The kitchen is 13' x 7'8". We would be looking for someone to coordinate the whole thing-from demo to tile floor and cabinet installation. We would purchase the cabinets and tile separately. 3k-5k for the contractor, labor and materials is actually much lower than we expected.
Posted by: perach at August 25, 2009 11:27 AM
60designers-thanks for the followup, I didn't see your post before making my last post, so I will give more info here. I am a novice, so I guess I'm still figuring out what the "costs" are. I assume we would purchase cabinets, tile, sink, appliances, faucet, counter, etc. The cabinetry is standard Kraftmaid (not ordered yet, but this is what we will probably go with), not custom. The kitchen is 13' x 7'8". We would expect the contractor to supply demo and trash removal, labor, spackling, painting, supplies needed for installation, grout and other items of this nature.
Posted by: perach at August 25, 2009 11:33 AM
Ok...That helps a bit. Take all price estimates on this site with a grain of salt, including mine. We don't know for sure without details, types of accessories to be installed, how many appliances, etc...but I'd estimate labor and installation costs for this size kitchen to be closer to 10K-12K, if it's a really simple and straightforward job. This number can vary based on the complexity of the kitchen layout. This also assumes a licensed contractor will be performing the work, filing a LAA1 application with DOB, Owner-supplied items that you described, waterproof membrane installation.
I'm not sure how others here can assume you'll be paying 5K or lower for even just labor. That leaves no profit margin for the contractor, and will barely get you beyond demo/waterproofing/flooring. A job like this still involves several trades (demo, tile, plaster, plumbing, electrical, etc), and you can expect to pay a premium to coordinate all these trades despite the size of the renovation.
I would recommend pricing the work out with up to 4 contractors to level the playing field. Otherwise, you won't really be getting competitive pricing.
Good luck.
60designers@gmail.com
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 12:01 PM
Try Mentor at Altina Tile - did our kitchen, similar job. very reasonable, licensed, insured and does a great job.
917-692-6234
Posted by: aabklyn at August 25, 2009 12:20 PM
My personal experience....
My kitchen is small (4.5 by 9). I paid 2.5 grand in labor costs to get the floor tiled, walls plastered and painted, cabinets hanged, countertops installed, sink installed and plumbing connected, stove installed and connected to gas line. No walls were broken or gas/water lines were moved. Just a standard kitchen renovation that seems similar to yours.
If you want my guy's number, let me know.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at August 25, 2009 12:24 PM
I'm genuinely surprised by Kensingtonian's numbers. Do us favor...after you get pricing from several contractors, please come back and post the range of numbers you receive. Then after the renovation, post how much the whole job ended up costing when all was said and done. I'd be very curious if you can have a GC execute all this to your satisfaction, including filing costs, below 10K.
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 12:31 PM
Well, I have something to add to Kensingtonian's post. My kitchen is the same size. Last year, my landlady paid someone to demo the existing kitchen, install top and bottom cabinets and a tile counter and a sink along one long wall, and disconnect and reconnect the existing stove and fridge. He also installed a tile floor. What's more, he also primed and painted the entire apt (about 800 sf) using one color for walls and another for ceiling and wood trim. He also refinished the floors throughout the apartment. Total labor cost: $2,000.
Isn't that insane?
Unsurprisingly, the contractor complained he cannot make any money at these prices and charged her more for the same job upstairs six months later (I don't know how much).
I feel bad for the contractor.
But it does go to show that things don't always have to be as expensive as you think.
Posted by: mopar at August 25, 2009 1:10 PM
Note on filing: if plumbing fixtures are just being upgrade (and will remain in same locations), it isn't necessary to file the work.
that being said, make sure your plumber is licensed and has proper credentials.
Posted by: bk_bobb at August 25, 2009 1:24 PM
Note on filing: if plumbing fixtures are just being upgraded (and will remain in same locations), it isn't necessary to file the work.
that being said, make sure your plumber is licensed and has proper credentials.
Posted by: bk_bobb at August 25, 2009 1:25 PM
Mopar...That's truly unbelievable. If I were to break down costs for each trade I don't know how it's possible to come to 2K for that work unless it was an unlicensed contractor, not filed with DOB, and poor craftsmanship. I've never had labor costs that low for a kitchen renovation, even with modest renovations...and I've done dozens for a variety of clients.
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 1:31 PM
60designers, I had very wide range of estimates. For my bathroom for example, I had qoutes ranging from 4K for the work to 22K for the work. That's a HUGE difference.
Also, just past week our co-op got estimates for cement work outside the building. We had 2 guys give us quotes for 16K and one guy came in and quoted the SAME EXACT work for 2.5K. We took him. Quality work was done as promised, on time, with no hassles. He was licensed and insured with all of the paperwork necessary for department of building. As mopar said, yeah its possible to find someone less expensive to do a good job.
The guy I hired to do the kitchen works for a very high end contracting company in the city that does a lot of multi-million dollar penthouse apartments. He is not a "contractor" per se so he did my job on the weekends and some plastering work on evenings and that worked out for me because his boss would charge me 15K for the same job and pocked 13K of it for himself. Meanwhile, this guy charged me what he would have made for the job with a little premium for himself. Nothing wrong with that.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at August 25, 2009 1:33 PM
perarch...I misread. I thought you were changing plumbing. You certainly don't need to file even a plumbing repair application unless you're moving or adding 2 or more plumbing fixtures.
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 1:34 PM
Why would hanging cabinets and detaching and attaching stove and fridge need filings with DOB and contractor needs to be licensed?
Neither was done for me since I didn't move ANY electrical or gas lines and my work was spotlessly done. Trust me, I am very anal when it comes to these things and the guy who did my work was great and actually loves what he does so he is pretty anal as well.
I did do some mistakes trying to save money. I paid very cheap ($1,600) for my formica kitchen cabinets and countertops which I saw in the showroom and they looked great there BUT when I actually got em, they were horribly made and didn't really fit and were supposed to be custom. I wouldn't recommend the guy who made them to my worst enemy. They do serve their purpose though and I was 26 years old when I bought the place and learned from my mistakes. For the money that I spend on them, I can still afford to throw them out and get it redone nicely now but I wont bother for this apartment.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at August 25, 2009 1:40 PM
Kensingtonian,
Most co-ops require licensed contractors to perform work, even simple kitchen renovations. And, some of them even require DOB filing whether the DOB requires it for that scope of work or not. Perarch should confirm their co-op's requirement.
It's a different story if it's not a condo or coop.
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 1:50 PM
Thanks for the clarification regarding the permits-our understanding is that for this type of reno we will not need any permits at all. Our co-op requires a licensed contractor, so there is really no way we can go with someone who is unlicensed. I suspect that could prevent us from getting some of the deals people have listed here, perhaps the discrepancy in estimates here is partly based on whether a licensed or unlicensed contractor was used? Or am I way off on this?
Posted by: perach at August 25, 2009 1:58 PM
Kensingtonian - I want your guy's number.
Posted by: Deda at August 25, 2009 2:04 PM
Perach...Who knows...maybe you'll find a gem of a contractor as some people on this site claim to have found. I'll just add that pricing is all over the place nowadays. Either pricing is coming back really high because contractors are trying to make up for lack of work, or pricing is low because they're desperate to get work. I'm sure you'll receive a whole range of prices. The point is, get numerous prices, make sure the contractors have reliable references, and hopefully you won't break the bank doing this work.
Best of luck.
Posted by: 60designers at August 25, 2009 2:10 PM
My guy's number is 347-583-0523. His name is Oleg. If you need to have a licensed contractor, you can definitely hire him and will need to go through his boss and obviously pay a premium but maybe you can work it out with him.
If you want to see his work, please feel free to contact me and I'll gladly show what he did in my house as well as the mistakes I made :o). He also done a bunch of jobs in my parents, sister's and a few friends houses that I am sure I can arrange for you to look at.
BTW, I am on a co-op board of my building and we only require licensed and insured contractors if any electrical or plumbing work is done. I also know that for a few other co-ops but I am neither an architect or a contractor or in that trade at all so I cannot comment for most or any other buildings in NYC.
Posted by: Kensingtonian at August 25, 2009 2:38 PM
Thanks to everyone for the comments.
Posted by: perach at August 25, 2009 10:11 PM
We completed two kitchen renovations about 6 months ago. The main kitchen was a high end reno done by a licensed contractor; the other was a rental kitchen and budget reno which was done by a handyman. Even in the latter case, the cost of labor and labor-related materials exceeded $5k.
Having read all of 60designers' posts, I would have to agree with him/her. Often is the case when you think you're saving money, you actually end up spending much, much more. By all means, get at least 5 quotes from licensed contractors for your job. (Get the contractor's actual license # and check it out with DCA; ask to be included as a direct insured on the GC's insurance policy).
By all means, you can get your kitchen done for less than $5k. But be careful!! In our experience, we've run into problems with contractors who quote high as well as those who quote low. But we've had way more problems when we've made hiring decisions based on the lowest quote. To date, we have yet to find the competent, professional "dream contractor" who bids low (and stays at that price), finishes the job on time and completes it to our satisfaction.
Good luck!
Posted by: Brooklynista at August 25, 2009 11:15 PM
We did our 9x7 galley kitchen a few years ago for about $12k when all was said and done. Cabinets from Ikea (which we still love) with high-end hardware (which I got very cheaply on craigslist), mid-range stainless steel appliances, cork floor, glass tile backsplash, Silestone counters, Elke under-mount sink + Grohe faucet. We did all of the materials sourcing ourselves and got some amazing deals, which impressed our contractor (who we loved working with) very much. By doing a lot of the groundwork, design work and behind the scenes stuff ourselves, and leaving the physical labor and technical aspects to the contractor and his crew, we got the kitchen we wanted at the price we wanted and couldn't be happier with the results. We originally wanted to stay under $10k, but we decided to splurge on the floor and the backsplash and it was worth it. Only thing we left out was the overhead lighting (3 recessed cans were already there and we didn't change them), which I'd still like to replace. The under-cabinet lights were a nice touch, though (and so cheap from Ikea).
Posted by: laurie11201 at August 26, 2009 7:26 PM
I should add that we didn't relocate the plumbing or gas line - with the exception of running a water supply hose from the sink and dishwasher hookup through a wall channel to the opposite wall of the kitchen so we could connect the water/ice dispenser on the new fridge.
Posted by: laurie11201 at August 26, 2009 7:31 PM
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