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August 21, 2009
Heat/HW Costs in a Rental?
So, I'm looking for a big 2 or small 3 bedroom rental, and lately I've seen a few where tenant pays heat/hot water.
I've never paid heat/hot water in my life, and I really have no idea what these expenses can run.
Obviously there are a ton of variables depending on building, space, type of heat, usage, etc.
But can someone give me a ballpark figure for an ~1000 sq. ft. space.
$1200 per year?
$2400 per year?
$3600 per year?
$4800 per year?
Just trying to figure out if Apartment A includes heat and hot water and Apartment B does not include heat and hot water, how much more should I be willing to pay in rent for Apartment A if all other things are equal.
Thanks.
Comments
Gas?
We have a gas powered hot water heater that runs the hot water to our baseboard radiators as well as our hot water for kitchen/bathroom. We have a 2 bedroom, probably 800 sq ft? (building is 20 x ? maybe 35?). We're 2 adults and 2 kids and we have a dishwasher, no washing machine...
Summer months our bill is about $60/every other month
Winter- anywhere between $75-$150 depending on the weather.
We don't have to turn the heat on much (we're on the top floor) and we have a programmable thermostat (we paid for the installation) - heat is set to 70 during the day and 62 at night (it rarely ever gets that cold, so it never really goes on at night).
Posted by: kramer at August 21, 2009 10:59 AM
If you're paying for both I'd assume both are gas.
We pay heat and hot water and our bills are consistent with Kramer's. We definitely keep the heat off at night and keep the thermostat fairly low and just wear sweaters during the day when we are home.
I know that our new neighbors cranked up the heat and were pretty floored by the first bill.
Posted by: serpentor at August 21, 2009 11:26 AM
I pay heat and hot water in my current apartment, and it's been more than I bargained for. I have a 3BR duplex (~1300), with an open area over the kitchen that goes up the second floor ceiling, so I knew that it was not going to be overly energy efficient. However, even with keeping the thermostat set to 68 during the day and 55 during the night, my gas bill during the winter was around $350 per month. I also have a DW and a dryer, which might make a difference, but the bill during the summer is very low in comparison (~$75), so I'm guessing it's mostly the heat.
Posted by: snowbunny at August 21, 2009 12:04 PM
I think if you called utility company they will tell you last years usage for that unit/customer
Posted by: Petebklyn at August 21, 2009 12:12 PM
Our monthly bills on our 1277sf duplex are similar to snowbunny's. Winter is around $300 a month, but we keep the place nice and toasty for the kids. Summers about $50-$60. You don't mention electricity, but it's the opposite. About $300 for Con Ed in the summer months. Of course less this summer, due to the cool rainy weather.
Coming from a rental which included all utilities, this was a big shock but now we've adjusted.
Posted by: kdabrowski at August 21, 2009 12:21 PM
In my apt. I pay gas and electric. I have my own tank water heater for the unit and my heating is done by those through-the-wall heaters that run on gas and electric. My gas bill averages about $110/month in the winter. My electric bill in the summer (if I don't run the a.c.) has come down to about $60/month (I unplug EVERYTHING now when it's not in use so there is no unnecessary usage drain from tvs, etc.) and in the winter is about the same as the gas bill. Summer gas bill is about $50/month (mostly fees for the 'privilege' of having them supply gas and a little bit of cooking).
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 21, 2009 12:31 PM
Thanks for all the info. Checking with the utility co is a good tip (although at least one place I saw was never lived in new construction).
We have a young child, so we wouldn't want to let things get too cold at night, and I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up on the expensive side of things.
I can see where costs would start adding up with W/D dishwasher too (which we would use a lot).
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 21, 2009 12:33 PM
I forgot to mention, I also have a d/w that I use several times per week and my apt. is about 500 or so sq ft (very rough estimate - I suck at this!)
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 21, 2009 12:39 PM
Smart of you to ask about this now. Wish I had. We live on the second floor of a three-story rowhouse that is open along one side. The bills vary a lot month by month, and we've also had a lot of ongoing problems with National Grid about estimated and just plain wrong bills, but all in all, it's worked out to be between $100 to $200 a month averaged out over 12 months.
The boiler isn't high efficiency but it's not old either. We keep the thermostat around 67.5 degrees. We wear sweaters in the winter. You can reduce the bill by turning down the hot water temperature and also turning off the boiler altogether during the non-heat months.
Posted by: mopar at August 21, 2009 1:37 PM
National Grid bills are every other month, right? So I'm wondering if the figures people are quoting are per month, or per billing cycle?
Posted by: kramer at August 21, 2009 2:19 PM
I lived in an apartment with electric radiators and my con-ed bill was horrifying. For a small 1-br, it ran $250-300/month in winter versus $90/month during the summer running the a/c.
Posted by: CG_ups at August 21, 2009 2:32 PM
I pay National Grid for cooking gas now, and I honestly can't remember if it is monthly or bi-monthly. I think I'm paying about $15 a bill (we cook a lot).
As for electric, right now we are paying about $60-75 without AC. Last summer was close to $200/mo with 2 window air conditioners. July wasn't so bad this year -- $145 or so I think. I expect August will be close to $200 though. This last week has been brutal.
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 21, 2009 3:20 PM
National grid is supposedly monthly, but they never read the meter more frequently than once every three months or so. you will always wind up with an estimated bill from them unless you read your own meter and report the numbers to them. There were several months when I first moved in to this apt. where they billed based on the prior usage records and wound up owing me money such that I had no bill to pay for 4 months straight.
Posted by: InsertSnappyNameHere at August 21, 2009 4:35 PM
As an owner of property, I will clarify it for you.
National Grid has switched its billing from every two months to monthly, in many instances bills are estimated. It is advisable for you to check your bill and see if it reads "estimated or actual", if it reads estimated, simply read your meter and call in the reading to National Grid and they will re-bill. It is easy to identify your meter, the meter number which is on the bill is also embossed on the meter.
As for the cost, there are a number of factors to consider.
Attached building, vs, semi attached or detached, frame or brick, insulated or not, quality vs. cheap or old windows. If the apartment is not insulated, has old drafty windows, the boiler will keep running until it reaches the temperature called for by the thermostat.
It also pays to look into the type of heating system. Most systems that serve individual apartments are gas fired - hot water circulating. If it is a conversion and the conversion was done on the cheap whereby the old boiler or large steam pipes, or the huge clunker radiators, which heated the building before the conversion was left in place for one apartment, the cost for that apartment would be prohibitive.
In most instances there are two separate boilers serving an apartment, one for heating and one for domestic hot water. If the domestic hot water heater is heated by way of a storage tank vs. an instantaneous hot water heater, the cost would be greater, since the instantaneous water heater consumes gas only when you run the water, after you are finished running the water it shuts itself off, whereas the storage tank type heater keeps the water in the tank hot at all times. Much of the heat in the tank gets lost through the flue pipes, so even when you are not at home you are paying for the gas which automatically re-heats the water in the tank when the water temperature falls.
My apartments are all well insulated with quality windows and proper conversions all designed to minimize the cost of consumption to the tenant. My tenants average monthly cost is $60-$70 for a two bedroom $80-$100 for a three bedroom. This includes the cost of heating, domestic hot water heating and cooking. Not a huge cost when you consider the convenience of setting the temperature to your own comfort level.
Posted by: jre at August 22, 2009 8:59 AM
Thanks for the info jre.
And, yeah, I'd rather pay for the heat and control the thermostat than have it included in the rent and have someone else decide what temperature settings to use (and in my experience, they usually err on the side of too warm in the day and too cold around 6:00am).
Looks like I should budget roughly $1200-$2400 for heat/hot water, plus $1200-$1800 for electricity with adjustments made for particular apartments and building types.
Posted by: northsloperenter at August 22, 2009 10:29 PM
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