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July 30, 2009
What Does Bed Stuy Need?
Question to all current Bed Stuy residents or those interested in moving to Bed Stuy. What types of goods and services are lacking in the neighborhood? Specifically the area around the Utica Train Stop (Stuyvesant Heights). Where would you like to spend your money but can't because those things aren't offered in the immediate area?
Comments
This exact same question has been asked before -- and answered very thoughtfully.
http://www.brownstoner.com/forum/archives/2009/03/changes_in_bed.php
Posted by: mopar at July 30, 2009 11:39 AM
"What Does Bed Stuy Need?"
Affordable brownstones inline with incomes instead of liar loans.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at July 30, 2009 11:43 AM
A nice bar to replace Solomon's Porch. i usually head down to Essence if I want to watch a game.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 30, 2009 11:44 AM
Without a doubt, more food and drink options. Peaches and Saraghina are great, but we still need more casual restaurants, bars, etc. Hopefully, Therapy Wine Bar will be nice - but I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. A gourmet market/supermarket would be great - preferably nothing too high end. Speaking of which, is Butternut ever going to open? It doesn't look like they're even doing any work.
Posted by: MaconStreetMan at July 30, 2009 11:44 AM
Bedstuyhoya, please don't take this the wrong way, but what is the purpose of this? The same post has been done before, ending up with lists of everything from cheese shops to bicycle stores. There is room in Bed Stuy for all kinds of retail, and all kinds of services. Getting people to once again complain of lack of amenities, and the proliferation of beauty parlors and bodegas is old news. What Bed Stuy (and Crown Heights, for that matter) needs, is people willing and able to put their money where their mouths are, and invest some serious money and dedication into the businesses that they think will fly. It's slowly happening, and there are many more businesses in the Lewis-Stuy Ave corridor area than there were 10 years ago, some do well, some die. A better survey may be to see why these businesses fail - is it poor management, poor product, bad timing, the general economy, no demand for product and services, and work from that in figuring out strategy for success. But in the end, what BS needs is entrepeneurs with enough money to see them through not just construction and opening, but for the next year so that they can build their businesses for the long haul.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 30, 2009 11:50 AM
OK, I'll repeat what's been said before:
A Mexican restaurant.
Posted by: mopar at July 30, 2009 11:53 AM
I would love to see Butternut Market open! I wine shop would be nice as well. Love Peaches Saraghina and a few more like minded restaurants would be great.
Posted by: grdnbklyn at July 30, 2009 11:55 AM
MM,
Not taken the wrong way at all. We didn't see the previous post about what Bed Stuy needs. Our question is not intended to be a rant session but a serious question about what is lacking in our beautiful community. We have an interest in putting our proverbial dollars in our mouths; however, we thought it might make a little sense to do an informal pole on Brownstoner.
Sorry that the question is redundant, but we still wouldn't mind hearing everyone's input.
We walk around our neighborhood here in bed stuy and love it more everyday. We want to see how we can actively make it even more lovely.
Posted by: bedstuyhoya at July 30, 2009 11:57 AM
True Montrose Morris. I have a small business in Boerum Hill. I live in Bed Stuy. I would be happy to share my 5 years of experience with anyone interested in going into business for themselves.
Posted by: grdnbklyn at July 30, 2009 12:00 PM
copied from my last post:
i think food options is key. we need basics,like a mike's diner. some place that is not specific or fancy. where you can go for breakfast, lunch, dinner or take out. i think Peaches is great but it is a soul/bbq joint. which is a specific taste.
also, grdnbklyn - there is a wine shop, olivino on marcus garvey and macdonough.
Posted by: bkny at July 30, 2009 12:03 PM
Bedstuyhoya, thanks for your response, I love the community, too, and am in BS almost as often as in Crown Heights, so this discussion has meaning for me, as well, and the answers are as relevant to my community. Take Solomon's Porch, for instance. Why did that fail? Was management incompetent? Was the food awful? Was the place not getting enough business? I was only there a couple of times, and it looked pretty successful during those time. I'm sure Dave has a good handle on that one, and I'd be interested in the reasons for closure.
I think any successful business venture has to be cognizant of the mixture of people in the community. A hipster yuppie bar ala Williamsburg might appeal to many here, but unless every yuppie in Bed Stuy is buying large every night, it will fail, unless it also is popular with a good deal of the rest of the community. I see all kinds of people at Peaches - yuppies, hipsters, student types, as well as locals, church ladies, people with their kids, etc. Peaches feels welcoming to all, and is not off-putting to the larger community. Unless their service gets so bad that people won't go there, and I recently had a meal there that fit that description, they will do well. Saraghina also is starting to bring in that necessary mix of people, and that is good.
If one opens a business that appeals only to their particular demographic, whether that demo is Afro-centric or white hipster, they need to be able to grow their base, or cross over into other markets, or they won't succeed. A gourmet food shop is a great thing, but are there enough people who can afford to buy ALL of their gourmet foods there, all the time? A store with a high over head in expensive perishables needs a strong, steady and growing customer base. I'm not saying BS can't do it, or that someone shouldn't open such a place, I'm just saying it will take savvy marketing, and sensitivity to the greater community for the business to succeed. If you can do that, I'll be there to support you, or anyone else. Crown Heights needs the same things, and I hope both communities are successful in drawing in thoughtful and successful businesspeople.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at July 30, 2009 12:28 PM
My suggestions for a Starbuck's and a Barnes & Noble will not be taken seriously, I suspect, but I think they'd do a ton for the community.
Posted by: Heather at July 30, 2009 12:29 PM
Hi grndbklyn,
I have a plan to open a business in Bed-Stuy (hopefully within the next two years). Please contact me at michael at sageenvironments.com as I would love to learn from your experience as a small business owner.
Thank you.
Michael
Posted by: bedstuymichael at July 30, 2009 12:33 PM
MM - I heard Soloman's Porch was closed by the heatlth department. They had a steady amount of business. I don't know this to be fact - but when I first inquired that was the response I received.
Posted by: bkny at July 30, 2009 12:37 PM
bedstuyhoya, a serious question for you: would the kind of shop you want to open be influenced by what we say?
If you have an idea for a store, can you tell us what it is? Maybe we can give you specific feed back on that idea.
My gut says don't open up a store unless the product(s) and/or service(s) are something you love and beleive in.
As for Solomon's porch, it was close by the BOH due to rat feces in the basement. The place was overrun by rats that would often rummage through the garbage at night and scare the bejesus out of anyone who walked by them. The owner of the building never provided proper storage for garbage.
The owner of the business routinely poured the day's grease down the storm drain. (lovely.) The food was nothing to write home about and the service was painfully slow. (It shouldn't take 30 minutes to get a cup of coffee, which is what I and others have experienced there.) The owner was also slow at paying the staff their wages. He was/is and all around cheesey business person. I would love for something to take over but I am glad that guy is out of business.
Oh, if I had my wish, I would want a deli/butcher, a bagel place, a pharmacy like Neergaard (on 7th Ave), more dining options, bank branches, a bakery and lots of mom and pop stores. Nothing fancy. I would love to see Bed Stuy be like an old New York neighborhood. Lots of little stores where everyone can shop and mingle in the same area where they live without having to go outside the area to do or get everything.
Posted by: Miss Chiff at July 30, 2009 12:56 PM
Bed-Stuy needs a cultural landmark not subject to the whims of business or marketing.
Something like a museum to act as an anchor tenant and stimulate both small businesses and cultural tourism.
How about a hip-hop museum. seriously.
How about a brownstone museum like the LES tenament museum.
How about a serious college campus, an outpost of NYU or Columbia, for urban studies.
How about the state or fed subsidizing a big name architect like Koolhaas or Mier or Ando to design the small campus.
Manhattan is busy getting the Highline park, Chelsea piers and all the development around ground zero. Queens just got a new Citistadium and the Bronx just got a new Yankee Stadium. Let's get some investment in Brooklyn, Atlantic yards keeps shrinking and now it may not even have the Nets.
Posted by: Legion at July 30, 2009 1:06 PM
I couldn't agree more with what Montrose said so eloquently at 12:28.
Fancy brand names are great (Starbucks, Barnes & Noble, etc.), but if they don't serve the needs of the BROADER community, as opposed to a particular segment, they're not only misplaced, but doomed to fail.
Posted by: East New York at July 30, 2009 1:08 PM
What Bedford Stuyvesant needs are more people that live in the area that own businesses.. We need more restaurants, lounges, specialty shops. I would love to see someone like Magic Johnson re-open the old Regal/ Slave theater up it truly is a shame that the biggest neighborhood in Brooklyn has no movie theater. More young people that invest in the neighborhood. More money from the city to help with our commercial corridors... tree planting. Fulton streets really just need help all together.
Posted by: Amzi Hill at July 30, 2009 1:12 PM
MM,
thank you for yoru very thought response to my response. you are correct in that for a business to "really" succeed, it needs to appeal to several diffenent demographics. thanks for your thoughts.
Heather - Starbucs and Barnes nobles could work. Like you there would be some push back, but it could work. Magic Johnson has proved that at least Starbucks works in underserved communities.
Posted by: bedstuyhoya at July 30, 2009 1:27 PM
I would be nice for a Barnes and Noble to come or the Vermont Teddy Bear company open a office in Bedford Stuyvesant. Since Bedford Stuyvesant is the home of the Teddy Bear. or even a big company like Footlocker which is part of the old Woolworth open a corporate office here. We could use a college here. St. Johns should come back. NYU is always looking for land or LIU. All the Fedders buildings in Central and Northern Bed-Stuy could make way for cool College buildings.. lets light get light rail going also...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at July 30, 2009 1:41 PM
"Magic Johnson has proved that at least Starbucks works in underserved communities."
I'm not so sure Magic Johnson is truly concerned with "underserved communities," despite his being a member of a minority group.
Also, perhaps I'm missing somethign, but exactly why would an "underserved community" NEED a Starbucks?
Posted by: East New York at July 30, 2009 1:46 PM
Butternut will eventually open but it will be a slow process as the building owner gets funds in to finish the work. Since that space and the ground floor next door are still zoned as a restaurant in the C of O, he also wants to open up an Italian restaurant next door/attached.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 30, 2009 1:47 PM
East New York - I am not a Starbucks fan at all, but he has opened successful Starbucks franchises in Harlem and South Central LA...that was my only point.
I also don't think that any one "NEEDS" a Starbucks. I think we agreement on all except for the fact that Starbucks located in inner-city neighborhoods have made a lot of money for Mr. Johnson.
Back to Bedstuy - we really want to invest in the community and have a couple ideas. We just wanted to see how our thoughts compare to what otheres thought.
I personally would like to see both more food options (both prepared and unprepared) and a nice place to unwind afterwork - perhaps a combo of the two/three...
Posted by: bedstuyhoya at July 30, 2009 1:55 PM
Sorry for all the typos...
Posted by: bedstuyhoya at July 30, 2009 1:57 PM
I agree with Legion. Our neighborhood needs cultural institutions. A museum, a theatre, an arts centre, a movie theatre -- something to bring people in to see what we've got and something in which people form Bed stuy can enjoy themselves, express themselves and be entertained.
I also agree that a big name store like barns and noble would be good too. Something that provides a stable anchor and some stable jobs for local people with the backing and finance of a major corporation. We have plenty of McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts and KFC -- why not a barnes and Noble or a starbucks too?
Also Bed-Stuy needs more of what it has been getting for the past ten years. More realisation from the outside world that this is a great place to live and work. It's safe, affordable and friendly. I still get mad when manhattanites and cab drivers raise their eyebrows when I tell them where I live. You'd think after 5 years I'd have gotten over it!
Posted by: jamesdoran at July 30, 2009 2:06 PM
My wish list:
- A jazz club that rivals Bluenote in Manhattan. Where are the big names? Seriously.
- Authentic Thai, Mexican, Japanese, Vegetarian.
- Top quality fish store, and a butcher.
- Fresh baked goods.
- Specialty food shop (like a citarella)
- An inexpensive restaurant that is still a nice place to eat with good food and strong coffee with free refills.
- Wine bar.
- Bar with a nice vibe and a mix of people.
Posted by: MacD at July 30, 2009 2:09 PM
Key institutions are always an important factor. I remember when I was looking to buy a home, my Mother would always tell me to buy something near a University. However, a cultural center, or something special that draws positive attention would be wonderful! I don't think that's quite what the poster had in mind. How does one go about getting a museam in their neighborhood anyway? That would be great.
Posted by: MacD at July 30, 2009 2:23 PM
How about just one, just one decent Chinese takeout.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 30, 2009 2:31 PM
@daveinbedstuy
dont be ridiculous, shitty chinese food is one of the hallmarks of bed-stuy
Posted by: jamesdoran at July 30, 2009 2:40 PM
"Starbucks located in inner-city neighborhoods have made a lot of money for Mr. Johnson."
I'm pretty sure you're right about that.
Anyway, I'm not "against" big, recognized brands, just the notion that they would necessarily "improve" a neighborhood.
Posted by: East New York at July 30, 2009 3:41 PM
I lived in Bed-Stuy a while back and my dream is to one day come back and open up an authentic Texas style barbeque spot that serves other southern fare and desserts. Also eventually opening up a bakery. I know this sounds ambitious but this will come to pass.
Posted by: monabee33 at July 30, 2009 3:44 PM
@ eastnewyork
I think the right kind of big names could definitley improve bed stuy. Im a writer and I would love to have a proper book shop, well stocked, run by people who care about books, with the scope and budget to host author readings, signings and discussion groups. barnes and Noble does this really well in manhattan and in Park Slope. Plus you get a good cafe, with wifi. A resource like that would really improve my corner of Bedstuy. Not to mention the chance to improve literacy and promote bibliophilia,
Posted by: jamesdoran at July 30, 2009 3:48 PM
@ eastnewyork
I think the right kind of big names could definitley improve bed stuy. Im a writer and I would love to have a proper book shop, well stocked, run by people who care about books, with the scope and budget to host author readings, signings and discussion groups. barnes and Noble does this really well in manhattan and in Park Slope. Plus you get a good cafe, with wifi. A resource like that would really improve my corner of Bedstuy. Not to mention the chance to improve literacy and promote bibliophilia,
Posted by: jamesdoran at July 30, 2009 3:48 PM
Barnes and Noble on Fulton would be great.. The neighborhood needs to invest on Fulton Street. there are blocks that are pretty much empty maybe a nail or hair salon here or there...
Posted by: Amzi Hill at July 30, 2009 4:00 PM
We NEED to clean up the neighborhood FIRST! Both the undesirables (at every corner delis) and the streets! Those drug dealers are a deterrent for small businesses to prosper. I owned a retail store on Tompkins/Jefferson Av. Trust me, it is a challenge to maintain a decent store and support the local community.
I am so sick and tired of cleaning up after these 'residents' supposedly living in Bed Stuy. If you are living here, pick after your trash and your dogs poo-poo!! It's only common decency and good hygiene. Chicken bones,wrappers,plastic and glass bottles being thrown everywhere - are'nt broken glasses a hazard to the kids around this neighborhood??
This is our neighborhood, and, if we do not take care of it, who would??
When this achieved,then decent shops and restaurants will start investing in Bed Stuy and hopefully thrive. We NEED the community to work with the precints for a safer and better 'living' quality in Bed Stuy. I have lived in Bed Stuy for almost 5 years, loved Bed Stuy and had been trying to get the local community to understand that we need to do this together for the betterment of Bed Stuy!!
I had this encounter with a lady and her dogs. Came right up to the front of my store with her 2 dogs. Let her dogs pooped and then walked away. I called to her and politely said to her 'ma'am can you please pick after your dog' her reply was 'the city will take care of that' and walked away!!
That being said.....
Posted by: ban at July 30, 2009 4:04 PM
"Not to mention the chance to improve literacy and promote bibliophilia"
Yeah, I'm a writer (and PR guy and former reporter), so I'm definitely in favor of these as well, and I agree Barnes and Noble is about as good a neighbor as any large brand.
Posted by: East New York at July 30, 2009 4:23 PM
There is a museum (Weeksville), there is a bookstore (Brownstone Books), there is a college (Medgar Evers -- actually in Crown Heights).
Hip hop museum would be super cool though.
Posted by: mopar at July 30, 2009 4:56 PM
Oh, and BHO, plenty of lawyers and execs living in affordable $600,000 brownstones in Bed Stuy.
Posted by: mopar at July 30, 2009 4:58 PM
The museum idea is fantastic. And not a hip hop one ;)
If it wasnt for the BedStuy blog I would of never known that the teddy bear orginated in BedStuy.
Posted by: jack slade at July 30, 2009 5:13 PM
Crown Heights also has the Brooklyn Children's Museum....which goes to my point. I'm not in Bed-Stuy much, but I I live in Crown Heights and I think it's pretty good w/out a Starbucks, certainly. Is it perfect? Definitely not. But it's a great neighborhood in many respects, and I'm not sure how it might be made better with the addition of a Starbucks in particular.
Posted by: East New York at July 30, 2009 5:19 PM
barnes and Noble or a starbucks will come after we all open biz & stores and improve the area. If you care about
BS, take actions and don't "waste" time complaining on the brownstoner.Dreams are good onlt if we follow with actions, otherwise this will be another pipe-dream posting.
Posted by: bk8 at July 30, 2009 5:37 PM
I think a museum is a great idea, especially a hip hop museum or some sort of music museum dedicated to jazz greats like Lena Horne and Eubie Blake. Both lived in Bed Stuy. Something like that could (depending on the success) anchor small businesses, help keep them in business.
Let's face it BS needs just about everything. Food options have to be at the top of the list, then a nice neighborhood bar.
Posted by: grilledsardine at July 30, 2009 6:14 PM
Keep the chains out! No Starbucks, no B&N. It's the beginning of the end of every charming neighborhood. We have Brownstone books, and we have Bread Stuy.
Posted by: Susan Elkins at July 30, 2009 6:31 PM
We need a bank and a pharmacy. The bank is the only chain I can think of that I would welcome. Except for Whole Foods. But I'd rather a small locally-owned natural foods store like Butternut. We need a pet-supply place.
Posted by: Susan Elkins at July 30, 2009 6:40 PM
It is annoying how people in New York, a town where most everyone works in finance or media, have pretensions of being anti-corporate.
Barnes & Noble and Starbucks give their employees HEALTH INSURANCE. Is it so wrong to want some retail businesses in a brownstone neighborhood that do so? Is it so wrong to support them? I think a Barnes & Noble and a Starbucks would probably serve a lot more of the neighborhood than a free-range butcher.
I agree, a bank would be good. Pharmacies, I think Bed Stuy already has, (although I'm not familiar with Utica stop.) And there's a Petco on Fulton.
Posted by: Heather at July 30, 2009 7:17 PM
The point is not to be anti-corporate. In fact, what I can't get at Brownstone Books, I'll order from Amazon. The point is that most chains introduce a non-personal product, in many cases not as good as a small store can offer with an owner who has first hand knowledge of the neighborhood, it's people and it's needs. It's also more satisfying to shop when you can look the owner/your neighbor in the eye. I personally prefer a small-scale shopping experience. Heather, you can live in the mall, and eat and wear generic. You won't know if you're in Commack or Clifton, but that will be ok with you. I'll take mom and pop, and my neighbors, and try to keep the unique personalities of different neighborhoods alive by supporting small businesses. Additionally, you'll find community pride and participation in a small business. By the way, my husband has a small store and gives all his employees health insurance.
Posted by: Susan Elkins at July 30, 2009 8:51 PM
MM is smart to look at who's thriving and who's failing, and think about why. So many people think that businesses will fail in Bed Stuy because there's not enough density, or because there's not enough rich people, or because of crime. But really, it's about building a market. It's more important to be excellent when you are building a market, but a lot of businesses in Bed Stuy fall victim to the wrongheaded notion that it's OK to suck in Brooklyn.
There are a lot of people who want to buy things in the neighborhood that they usually import from Manhattan or other neighborhoods in Brooklyn along their commute. But choosing to bring your dollars home can't feel like a sucker's game, or people won't do it. It's easy to pick up a bottle of wine in Manhattan, but once I get home and decide to trust Olivino, I have made it difficult to get a bottle of wine if Olivino flakes on me. So it is *more* important for Olivino to be open when they say they will, and have decent stock, than you'd think. Olivino is great about this, so I consistently choose to spend there. But if they decide they are closed one night, or decided to stop stocking cheap bottles, or whatever, I will feel really screwed, and will start protecting myself by buying my wine in Manhattan, like I used to.
Peaches, in addition to making both black and white people equally comfortable, is great at being reliable. I know that I can get a burger, or catfish and grits, with no hassle and good vibes, every day except Monday, with no BS, bad food, long waits, or lame waiters. Tip Top, Tiny Cup--similarly reliable and revisitable: they have something you genuinely want, are consistently open and don't tend to disappoint with dumb problems, bad service, not having what you need/expect, etc.
Saraghina seems to be doing really well with being reliably good and open, but their waitstaff is too foreign to make all kinds of people feel comfortable. (this shouldn't matter, but almost every single time I have eaten there, I have been seated next to a very uncomfortable table of diners who I believe are reacting to the fact that their waiter can't quite speak English)
Solomon's Porch was awful in terms of reliability and repeatability. The food there was an afterthought. It was closed at weird times.
Any business would do well in Bed Stuy, provided the owners:
1. care so much about what they were offering that they will go out of their way to ensure that many different kinds of people are welcome and comfortable in their place.
2. are committed to being aggressively competent and reliable.
3. And understand that the competition is not whatever else is in Bed Stuy--it's Manhattan.
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 31, 2009 1:50 PM
I have said it before and i will say it again--People looking to invest in the stuy should seriously consider fulton street where the foot traffic is ALWAYS high and most people walk to or through to get to the subways--I believe a BID has just been approved for the areas between franklin and new york ave. You would be drawing foks from clinton hill, crowne heights and bed stuy--open a restaurant--that area needs more than just bush baby, steam tables, the many many many patty restaurants (delicious but way too many of them)and the 10 fast food chicken places.
Posted by: HomeSweetstuy at July 31, 2009 8:21 PM
More organic produce, more affordable restaurants, less hipsters and less white people. Lets not be mistaken, its not about gentrification, it's about (white)ification. More white people come in, and gently push out the black folks and the families. It's a tight knit family community with a beautiful culture and history, it's disappearing...sadly...
Posted by: the_truth at August 27, 2009 10:50 PM
More organic produce, more affordable restaurants, less hipsters and less white people. Lets not be mistaken, its not about gentrification, it's about (white)ification. More white people come in, and gently push out the black folks and the families. It's a tight knit family community with a beautiful culture and history, it's disappearing...sadly...
Posted by: the_truth at August 27, 2009 10:52 PM
less white people??!?!?!!
Yes that's EXACTLY what Bed Stuy needs more of:
more intolerance, fear and xenophobia.
THAT will make things better.
Posted by: bryanx at November 6, 2009 2:04 PM
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