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July 28, 2009
RE Agents Hate Brownstoner
So I been doing lots of open houses the past few months looking for a place. Every time I encounter a real estate agent and mention Brownstoner, their demeanor changes. Some have flat out said they hate this site. What's with all the animosity towards Brownstoner? This is a great site! Most probably feel we (users) force RE agents, developers, etc on being more honest. So they cant cut corners and blatantly lie. What do you all think? Similar experience in the field?
Comments
I think that realtors make a lot of money taking advantage of people who do not have enough information to make good decisions (e.g., people who really believe that 16th street and 4th avenue is "prime park slope").
Brownstoner and similar sites help to distribute information to buyers/renters which allows them to make better decisions. Thus it is harder for realtors to dupe people.
They hate this, because they would much rather dupe someone into overpaying for a place they will be miserable with than to truly help someone find a home they can afford and be happy with. I guess doing the former feels like "winning" and doing the latter feels like "providing a service".
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 28, 2009 10:22 AM
I think it is a clothing store whose logo is: "an educated consumer is our best customer". For RE agent, knowledge is an anathema. The only "educating" is to be done by them. This site dispenses wide ranging facts and opinions. A reader can only walk away better educated, but more importantly - a bit more skeptical. An agent likes their customers docile and accepting. The real estate industry should be taken to task for its' role in the ongoing bubble. Their ONLY motivation is "the deal". Keep on reading!
Posted by: sjtmd at July 28, 2009 10:32 AM
Lwt's see what the What has to say about this.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 28, 2009 10:35 AM
Or maybe it's because just about everyone on this site emphatically professes the belief that all realtors are evil and that there's no such thing as a good or useful one...?
Posted by: Brownstonerlogin at July 28, 2009 10:38 AM
Quik, I think you answered your own question. I also wonder if realtors have a perception that this site drives down prices, due to all the critical and pessimistic comments that greet the HOTD and open house picks. But if recent posts comparing the price widget to actual sales are any indication, the market seems impervious to Brownstoner (sorry, Mr. B). That said, you pull a stunt like Awaye did, you're gonna get called on it.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 28, 2009 10:41 AM
Not true, brownstonerlogin.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 28, 2009 10:42 AM
maybe it's because half the comments on this website are misinformed and ridiculous.
Posted by: cottontop at July 28, 2009 10:42 AM
quote:
maybe it's because half the comments on this website are misinformed and ridiculous.
you seriously think that? weird considering most posters on this site are already owners in brooklyn and have been for a long time.
ill tell you what's misinformed. brokers who broker in brooklyn but live on staten island and have only lived on staten island for three months before having moved from kalamazoo.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 28, 2009 10:52 AM
Basically, all of the above comments are correct.
Posted by: Park Sloper at July 28, 2009 10:54 AM
I have to say despite all the nuttiness that does go on amongst posters, this site is INVALUABLE to many of us who need answers,tips and advice to our RE questions. I have learned so much in the year that I have been actively reading/posting that has honestly given me guidance to make some of my decisions.
I think agents fear this site because it does educate the masses. The worst thing for many agents is to have a potential client be it a renter or buyer who knows all the RIGHT questions to ask....
Posted by: gemini10 at July 28, 2009 10:57 AM
I think too many armchair critics that think they are being witty and clever by coming up with negative comments about any condo or house featured.
Almost a contest to see who can come up with snarkiest criticism.
Posted by: Petebklyn at July 28, 2009 11:02 AM
@cottontop- i disagree with your "half the comments on this website are misinformed and ridiculous." statement. Yes there is misinformation everywhere but at least we can have a debate about it. Furthermore, it gives us the opportunity to further investigate. Most of the stuff I read from the forum is correct or at least gets my fingertips to Google to further validate whatever statement. I started looking for a place over a year ago and was super difficult, I think coming here and seeing questions posted about buying has helped me out since.
Posted by: guikazoid at July 28, 2009 11:03 AM
I've had realtors get snippy at me for referencing Streeteasy and Propertyshark. In my experience at a few open houses and email exchanges, almost every single broker has not appreciated that I peruse these sites obsessively. I think that most brokers would prefer a return to the dark ages when we didn't have such easy access to comps, sale prices, and online communities like Brownstoner and other blogs to learn more about the market.
Posted by: BrooklynZoo at July 28, 2009 11:04 AM
For the record, the reason we bought our home 3 years ago was Brownstoner. First of all, it was the only web site that came up when I put in "Kent Street, Greenpoint" (at the time I found it beautiful and ideal, and wanted to know more about it). That first click lead me into this world of nose-to-the-brownstone (haha) insider info, both from Mr. B and the argumentative, passionate followers of the site. MORE SPECIFICALLY, there used to be a bar on the left with Real Estate Web site links, and I would scan them religiously every day for new listings. These were not just "corcoran" and "brown harris stevens" -- it was all the little local ones. My house appeared one day on the Brooklyn Properties site. I called that night, and without having seen the house or hung out much in the neighborhood where it was located, I told the lovely gentleman on the other end of the line that this was going to be my family's house, "just so you know." He laughed but I think he knew I was serious. And I was. Thank you brownstoner, and to any Real Estate broker out there, you really are STUPID and deserve not to sell a thing, if you don't like brownstoner. This site creates appetite and excitement for neighborhoods, homes, interiors, community awareness, etc. . . It helps many people I know get comfortable with the idea of owning a home -- the very people you then get paid mad commissions for seducing into a buy. Anyway, a smart RE agent will know how great this site is for them. Everyone else: you get what you deserve, dimwits.
Posted by: iz at July 28, 2009 11:04 AM
quote
I think too many armchair critics that think they are being witty and clever by coming up with negative comments about any condo or house featured.
Almost a contest to see who can come up with snarkiest criticism.
pete, that is a good point, as that is the case with most blogs. honestly tho, i just do NOT see that here, at all.
maybe when there was "horror show friday" here, but that ceased because it was, well, lame.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 28, 2009 11:05 AM
@rob - to pete's point when Awaye Realty pulled that stunt, it became a contest on who can rip them the biggest one :)
Posted by: guikazoid at July 28, 2009 11:09 AM
slopefarm -- for a case in point on pessimistic yet not overly critical comments, look at the HOTD on Schermerhorn from a month ago.
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/06/house_of_the_da_706.php)
The widget came in a million below the ask, the comments were relatively positive yet few were within 10% of the ask. The listing is no longer on Corcoran, so maybe that was the death knell?
Posted by: Boerumresident at July 28, 2009 11:09 AM
"maybe it's because half the comments on this website are misinformed and ridiculous."
That must really annoy the subset of realtors who ridiculously use the words stunning, breathtaking and luxury to describe the mediocre, mundane and standard so as to misinform potential buyers.
Posted by: dittoburg at July 28, 2009 11:12 AM
I think developers that embrace this tech do well, for example, One Sunset Park. The place is fantastic and it seems like they're selling. I think it also makes these guys want to develop higher quality living places.
I checked out this open house in Slope over the weekend and my girlfriend tried opening up a cabinet in the kitchen but couldn't, because the stove was blocking it. The cabinet would not open ONE INCH. Come on really? New development and you have that happening. I can only imagine underneath, where the might have screwed up.
Posted by: guikazoid at July 28, 2009 11:18 AM
I think it's because there are posters on this site that undervalue properties. A year or so ago I would have loved to have my house featured as a house of the day. Now I would beg Brownstoner NOT to feature it if I were selling. Posters on this site tear up houses for sport.
Posted by: dt at July 28, 2009 11:18 AM
Boerum,
That could be. But last week, Mr. B posted a thread about 2 houses outperforming the widget by about 15-25%. Readers added three more, all of which sold for at least 15% above widget. Hopefully, in a few more months we'll get a real rundown of the widget and enough data points to really assess.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 28, 2009 11:21 AM
The underlying problem for realtors here is not Brownstoner; it is the internet.
Ultimately the internet should do to real estate brokers what it did to travel agents (i.e., put most of them out of business).
The best way for realtors to slow down this transformation of their industry (and keep their jobs) is to prevent information from being centralized and effectively organized online.
As more and more sites like Brownstoner or NY Bits collect and store this information, the "need" for realtors begins to go away (esp. in the rental market).
And with the persistence of information online, places like Awaye that get caught doing something shady are put in a tough spot. Pretty soon anyone Googling their name will find this information, and they are going to have to work hard to rebuild their rep or change their name.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 28, 2009 11:24 AM
The reason why realtors HATE this site is because brownstoner keeps them honest and allows the community to comment and vent on their underhanded ridiculous behavior. And yes things do get a bit crazy from time to time BUT Brownstoner is extremely informative and invaluable to me as a Brooklynite.
Realtors need to focus on getting their acts together and do a better job...to many people on this site have had terrible experiences with realtors in the Brooklyn area...myself included.
PS: not all realtors suck...just most!
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 28, 2009 11:24 AM
Comments here are as bad from RE and devs.
There is nothing special about the internet and blogs specifically. There are agendas, no liability and childish name calling. However, that can also lead to more honest replies.
However, however - more often than not most are overly exaggerated criticism or praise.
So basically, you get a very high signal to noise ratio. It is more entertaining than down right informative. If you are serious about a place you are better off doing your OWN primary source research. This means NOT a blog site or RE agent. All of them have their primary purpose and it is NOT to get your the best house. That is often just a side effect of such process.
It is like a reality show - it is a reality only for some and a show for the rest of us.
Posted by: crimsonson at July 28, 2009 11:24 AM
Of course there are honest brokers, and if anything, a site like this keeps them all more honest. Somebody needs to point out when listings are full of lies and exaggerations (from counting an unfinished basement in the SF to extending the boundaries of Prospect Heights to Broadway Junction.) The net benefit of the site is invaluable for people looking to rent or buy in this city, and brokers who are afraid of informed customers are S.O.L. I found my house, FSBO, through the comments section of this blog. It was a delight not to see any brokers at the closing.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at July 28, 2009 11:25 AM
I would actually WANT my apartment to be listed on Brownstoner. As the saying goes "There is no such thing as a bad publicity". The more people see it, the better.
"One man's garbage is another man's treasure."
Posted by: Kensingtonian at July 28, 2009 11:29 AM
dt, I agree with you about how readers tear up houses -- a lot of that is envy and wishful thinking ("I could afford 1.2 mil therefore that's what it's worth"). But I've seen many houses survive the feature in Brownstoner and go on to sell handsomely. It might be a nice idea to actually do a review of House of the Day results over the past couple years -- how long on the market, how much sold for etc...
Posted by: iz at July 28, 2009 11:33 AM
Your fucking delusional if you think Brownstoner and the nimrods here keep Brokers honest. Please. What are you the fucking Realtor Police, fighting the injustices in brownstone brooklyn? Ha Ha what a joke. This blog is full of blowhards who think they know everything and sit on their ass all day and make stupid comments about houses they never see and cannot afford anyway. Everyone has a opinion on the internet and everyone is an expert, blah blah blah blah,
Posted by: billyboomer at July 28, 2009 11:37 AM
Your fucking delusional if you think Brownstoner and the nimrods here keep Brokers honest. Please. What are you the fucking Realtor Police, fighting the injustices in brownstone brooklyn? Ha Ha what a joke. This blog is full of blowhards who think they know everything and sit on their ass all day and make stupid comments about houses they never see and cannot afford anyway. Everyone has a opinion on the internet and everyone is an expert, blah blah blah blah,
Posted by: billyboomer at July 28, 2009 11:37 AM
Case in point.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 28, 2009 11:39 AM
For instance, I'm terribly curious about my favorite FSBO ever, the one on S. Oxford, one of the cutest little cottages in Ft. Greene, and right across from that tiny park with the secret tennis courts (oops . . .). It is way up there in price, but I wonder how it will fare in this market. See, I sound like a r.e. agent myself, or the owner. Who gives a fk. I love that house. I want someone to buy it and live in it because I already have one, but if I didn't . . . . .so perfect (except for the price).
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/06/house_of_the_da_701.php
Posted by: iz at July 28, 2009 11:39 AM
"Everyone has a opinion on the internet and everyone is an expert, " and all brokers are trolls.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 28, 2009 11:42 AM
billyboomer, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't know all that instructive, informative, qualified information you just shared with us. You contradicted yourself entirely! Thank you anyway.
Posted by: iz at July 28, 2009 11:42 AM
If you think the folks on this site are a bunch of nimrods then why do you bother to log in and comment? Sounds oxymoronic if you ask me.
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 28, 2009 11:44 AM
People's differing slants on anything are informative. Negatives are often enlightening. I bet the crew here would do a better job on the Recent Sales page in the Sunday Times where Vivian Toy seems to be reaching to find a reasonable plus or minus. I'm not in the market but I've learned a lot anyway.
People who have never owned or been responsible for a place can glean a lot of power by knowing what to look for.
Posted by: Arkady at July 28, 2009 11:50 AM
The one thing I've learned over the years is that there are NO EXPERTS when it comes to Real Estate. Not the brokers, not the sideline commentators, not the open house addicts. It's all about using ALL the information, and making an informed decision from all the differing misinformations.
Posted by: iz at July 28, 2009 12:01 PM
My apartment was listed on Brownstoner when I sold last year and while I can't say for sure that it helped the sale I would guess it did. Certainly didn't hurt and the attendance at the open house spiked.
Posted by: wasder at July 28, 2009 12:04 PM
As I have been guilty of sitting on my ass perhaps someone could suggest an alternative way of sitting. I hate to be too mainstream.
Posted by: dittoburg at July 28, 2009 12:14 PM
dittoburg:
shins? or you can squat too, like in the eastern part of the world. or lie flat on your tummy, kick your feet over your head, and squeal like a little girl at the wonders offered by the new world of internet real estate. Just some uninformed imput.
Posted by: iz at July 28, 2009 12:18 PM
This forum community has to be the most informative and entertaining place. I've been a lurker for quite some time but recently signed up as a member. It helped me greatly during my house closing and renovation process. As far as why real estate agents would hate this site is probably because it gives TRUTHFUL knowledge of the Brooklyn community..which means the lazy real estate agents will need to work harder to sell a property. Of course with any online community you should always take everything with a grain of salt and research yourself. =) Good Luck
Posted by: namahs at July 28, 2009 12:19 PM
I like the tummy idea. Stretching the definition of sitting, but very outre.
Posted by: dittoburg at July 28, 2009 12:21 PM
They hate it because they don't control it.
Posted by: mopar at July 28, 2009 12:37 PM
> Almost a contest to see who can come up with snarkiest criticism.
Almost?
Posted by: DitmasSnark at July 28, 2009 12:41 PM
"Every time I encounter a real estate agent and mention Brownstoner, their demeanor changes. Some have flat out said they hate this site."
I thought The What was out of real estate sales?
Posted by: East New York at July 28, 2009 12:42 PM
I do not hate this site but I do find that the majority of the comments about properties are negative. I also think it is not fair to the owners of properties to have their homes picked apart by commentators who have only viewed photos or floorplans and have not actually seen the property. Also, the majority of the comments almost automatically always claim that a property is overpriced, which is not the case. Another thing I do not particular like is that if a person posts a request about whether or not to use an agent, again, almost automatically, the comments say do not use an agent and then rant about how terrible agents are in real estate. In this regard, it bothers me that although most commentors apparantly hate real estate agents, they say if you must use an agent go to the big companies, Corcoran or BHS and I find this a disservice because I think a lot of the negative connotations about real estate agents comes from dealing with these huge, inflexible corporations.
Posted by: broker at July 28, 2009 1:25 PM
I am no fan of real estate agents, to put it mildly. But I have found that many (certainly not all) of the comments on open houses are misinformed and clearly from people who have not seen the house and/or are not really knowledgeable about carpentry/restoration/etc. And those comments are almost always negative. However, I have no trouble with getting under the real estate professionals' thin skins.
Posted by: creaturesgreatnsmall at July 28, 2009 1:28 PM
Lets be clear I (we) don't hate agents...What we hate is the continues lack of professionalism that we've experienced when dealing with agents. I have had agents become very nasty and not disclose important information about the property in question. Yes, it there job to sell the property but agents tend to cross the line in order to do so. For example...my significant other and I had an agent making decisions on behave of the seller without ever having a conversation with the seller. We've even experienced a completely made up bidding war all because the agents wanted a larger commission…..COME ON!
Posted by: A CrownHeightsLady at July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
I Said HALF of the comments are ridiculous. I think that's pretty fair. Especially when people are critiquing properties. Most comments slant well into the negative/snarky category. Very few level heads or even optimists around here.
I still read it daily, and still find it helpful, but I disagree that MOST comments are useful.
Posted by: cottontop at July 28, 2009 1:45 PM
"Another thing I do not particular like is that if a person posts a request about whether or not to use an agent, again, almost automatically, the comments say do not use an agent and then rant about how terrible agents are in real estate."
Your industry has brought this on yourselves by relentlessly screwing people very chance you get. It's not just 1% or 2% of realtors who do this. It is more like 65-75%.
I'm sorry if you are part of the 25-35% of realtors who don't lie, exaggerate, or mislead, but your colleagues have caused more than enough damage to the community to overshadow your good efforts.
Rather than trying to keep people from figuring out the truth, maybe you should try cleaning up your industry.
Posted by: northsloperenter at July 28, 2009 1:51 PM
Re: broker
Most buyers first see properties online and will only visit those properties that have made a valid attempt to represent reality. If it looks bad online chances are pretty good that it will be bad when you hit the open house.
Information is valuable when the people you have to deal with hold all the cards.
If Brokers were transparent and provided a service then negative comments would be far and few between.
Posted by: Gross at July 28, 2009 1:53 PM
Broker - FYI, I don't hate agents. In fact, I've worked with great sales and rental agents at Corcoran over the past dozen years, and recently recommended one of my agents to a fellow poster.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at July 28, 2009 2:04 PM
I think this site is pretty fantastic. I mean, I could do without some of the hysteria but generally I think it's people who really like Brooklyn and really like brownstones talking about what they like.
Real estate brokers are trying to sell and get the best price possible. So, okay. That's their job. Some of them are really helpful and some of them are really rude and the prices are what buyers will pay.
Posted by: Chrisintheheights at July 28, 2009 2:04 PM
Well, knowledge is power, and it compromises what a broker has historically been able to do, especially in the pre-internet days. It makes you work harder, in ANY business, when the client is halfway there in the knowledge department and just need you to bring your expertise and work to earn your commission.
Like the travel brokers, who went the way of the dinosaurs once we had access to the same info they did, any real estate broker who can truly offer a useful service will stay in business. The ones who rely on us being ignorant fools are the ones who feel an arrow in their back at the mention of Brownstoner.
Posted by: jland at July 28, 2009 2:19 PM
I completely understand there are terrible agents/brokers and I do not have a problem with people expressing their opinions about it, but I don't think that we should all be lumped together. If you've had a bad experience with a particular agent or office than say it, don't just blame all real estate agents.
Again, like I said, I do not hate brownstoner, I just dont' like how negative it can be about properties, prices and agents. I think there are a lot of positive things to be said about all those things and I wish that came through more on this blog. It wasn't always this negative and when it wasn't so negative Brownstoner used to carry a little more weight with agents/brokers and actually took in the constructive criticism.
Posted by: broker at July 28, 2009 2:28 PM
long before brownstoner or curbed or street easy... i explored real estate in brooklyn. I started in 1996. i did it on foot attending dozens of open houses every weekend. i was overlapping looking at properties while buying and selling at different times. i have always based my information on my own research. i covered all of gentrified brownstone brooklyn from the heights to Ditmas Park and kensington even and of course williamsburg.
some times, i found myself to be more knowledgeable than the real estate agents, but really found many to be just fine and some really good. i don't totally understand all the negativity against brokers.
the comments on these sites for sure include some that are utterly wrong. just wrong. but because they are written, they somehow get passed along and become true even when the facts point otherwise. doesn't affect my actual experience of my property or neighborhood, but think that if I don't counter these misconceptions, then people doing a search down the road won't hear the truth.
I bought a brownstone in cobble hill in '97 and a house in Park Slope in 2000 right off of 5th avenue in central slope. Note, both purchases prior to the explosions of Smith Street and Fifth Avenues. Pretty good. So, when I invested in Wburg in 2006, I felt pretty confident, and still do.
When I started reading and posting on these sites, I thought that i was going to be a good guy and help folks out who didn't have my experience or research. hardly! so many people are simply posting to be difficult, negative or to find an outlet for their frustrations. read half these comments and want to direct people to a therapist.
Posted by: wine lover at July 28, 2009 3:27 PM
A day will come when the internet gets profoundly regulated.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at July 28, 2009 3:33 PM
I am a real estate agent and I love Brownstoner. It's an incredibly valuable source of information about many Brooklyn neighborhoods and I find it's generally very correct -- and that mistakes, once caught, are quickly rectified.
What I do not like (nor do most of my colleagues) is the mean-spirited, inaccurate, and just plain inflamatory nature of many of the comments. For that reason I tend not to read them.
Jon & Co, you do a great job. Thanks!
Posted by: babs at July 28, 2009 3:37 PM
BHO - do you know something about China's plans fo the US that we don't?
Posted by: dittoburg at July 28, 2009 3:54 PM
Why would real estate agents hate a site that gives their properties more exposure?
Everyone knows not to take what people write on these sites as the "final word"...so all it does it give more exposure to the listings.
Posted by: Streetwise123 at July 28, 2009 3:56 PM
Realtors are salespeople. They are what they are. If you can't see through a sales pitch you shouldn't complain about getting had.
But I can see why realtors would hate B'stoner. Salespeople who are trying to push overpriced product hate informed customers. Salespeople with competitive product love informed customers. With the likes of B'stoner out there, how can realtors create a false sense of urgency and an expectation that prices will just keep going up?
Posted by: lechacal at July 28, 2009 4:02 PM
"So, when I invested in Wburg in 2006, I felt pretty confident, and still do."
So THAT'S why everything you ever post on here is about how all of North Brooklyn is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
"When I started reading and posting on these sites, I thought that i was going to be a good guy and help folks out who didn't have my experience or research."
You don't help anyone out when you adopt a completely uncritical rah-rah cheerleading attitude toward your own neighborhood because you're afraid your investment might go south.
Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at July 28, 2009 7:47 PM
"MORE SPECIFICALLY, there used to be a bar on the left with Real Estate Web site links, and I would scan them religiously every day for new listings. These were not just "corcoran" and "brown harris stevens"it was all the little local ones"
So true Iz, I miss that feature too.
Maybe that's why brownstoner is hated on? The free links have gone bye bye.
Posted by: jack slade at July 28, 2009 8:40 PM
Don't see why an ethical Broker would hate this site. After all - they seem to be the biggest sponsors of the site, eventhough they're up for a lot of abuse by a lot of posters, many of whom don't don't have a clue about Real Estate.
Posted by: Crownlfc at July 28, 2009 10:18 PM
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