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July 15, 2009
Neighbor's Huge Tent
My neighbor put up a tent that is almost the size of the entire yard, has a pitched roof, so goes over 6 feet, and is one foot from my property line. He is a renter. The landlord is unresponsive. Is this legal per zoning laws. It is an eyesore and he will be partying all the time.
Comments
So what I meant to ask was, can anyone recommend a good real estate attorney who specializes in zoning, permits, land use? Thanks for your help.
Posted by: BB at July 14, 2009 8:33 PM
I wouldn't waste money on an attorney just yet. Call 311 and make a complaint. Also call your local community board.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at July 14, 2009 8:36 PM
Why don't you ask him how long he is planning on keeping it up? Maybe they are just having a party/backyard wedding/etc this week and it will be gone next week.
Posted by: setancre at July 14, 2009 8:45 PM
311 didn't have anything, as it is not a permanent structure (although I do hear him cementing the poles down, as I write this). 311 did say something about calling Dept. of City Wide Planning during business hours.
Posted by: BB at July 14, 2009 8:48 PM
No, it is not just for a special party. Before the tent, he often drank alcohol up till 4:00 am with friends, talking loudly under our bedroom windows. He has no regard for being a good neighbor. He smokes so much inside his house that we get second hand smoke in our house. He and his friends smoke cigars in the backyard, making our own unusable.
Posted by: BB at July 14, 2009 8:51 PM
ever tried talking to him?
Posted by: vanburenproud at July 14, 2009 10:08 PM
Of course I've tried talking to him. When he is loud and drunk at 4:00 in the morning he tells me to shut my windows, which I've done, and still hear him and his party through double-pane glass, when I complain about the music through the walls filling my house, when I complain about the second hand smoke coming through my walls. He acts like I have nerve to voice a complaint, and he has the right to do whatever he wants. This tent is as big as something someone might put up for a wedding.
Posted by: BB at July 14, 2009 10:23 PM
Don't forget all the rain water that may cause damage to your yard. I say send the owner a certified letter stating your concerns.
Posted by: jack slade at July 14, 2009 11:04 PM
This stinks. I second the above about the letter. And I'd also recommend getting a lawyer (or a lawyer friend) to draft this letter outlining the concerns to the owner on the firm's stationery. If he gets the sense that it'll be more expensive to deal with you than with his tenant, he'll probably deal with his tenant. Which, from what you're writing here, sounds like what he should have been doing all along.
Posted by: bkrules at July 15, 2009 9:08 AM
The tent is one thing but the noise is another. Call the local precinct on the noise.
bkrules puts forth the best idea on the tent. Highlight rainwater damage to your property.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 15, 2009 9:12 AM
Whatever letters you write, be sure to do them Registered Mail. If you use e-mail, be sure to do it so you get a "verification of delivery". Keep a diary of any untoward events - noise, run-off, altercations.
Posted by: Arkady at July 15, 2009 9:18 AM
quote:
"he often drank alcohol up till 4:00 am with friends"
heaven's to betsey! the nerve!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 15, 2009 10:00 AM
nevermind, i read the rest of your post, he sounds like a sucky rude neightbor. why does he need a tent? sounds stupid.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 15, 2009 10:01 AM
The FDNY must have regulations concerning a tent of that size being so close to property lines... it sounds very dangerous and could present a fire hazard.
Perhaps a call of concern to the FDNY might get them out there to checkout the situation.
Posted by: bren at July 15, 2009 10:08 AM
I wold try what bren suggest, and call the local precinct. You may also want to check the city regulations on permanent back yard structures- hopefully vinca will post - he knws a lot about this sort of thing.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 15, 2009 10:10 AM
Is it a tent or a marquee?
Posted by: dittoburg at July 15, 2009 10:14 AM
Nuisance complaint may be way to go, naming tenant and landlord (they usually spook at lawsuits involving shitty tenants).
Posted by: bmfesq at July 15, 2009 10:33 AM
It is not against the law to have a tent in the backyard as long as it is open on the sides and "temporary" in nature meaning no foundations or mechanicals. It is also not agaisnt the law to drink in your backyard until 4:00 AM.
No matter where you go (except the distant boonies) you will have neighbors. If it isn't one thing it's another.
Try calling DOB, but don't be surprised if when they stop by they notice a few problems with the adjacent houses as well(meaning your house).
Posted by: Minard Lafever at July 15, 2009 10:34 AM
Architect here. You can reference Section 7 of the NYC Building Code - special uses and occupancies, article 19, regarding tent structures.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/bldgs_code/bc27s7.pdf
Good luck.
60designers@gmail.com
Posted by: 60designers at July 15, 2009 10:34 AM
I agree - I would call the FDNY as well and explain the situation, especially if this guy is hammering posts into the ground etc, next thing you know he might try using a grill under the tent or a fire pit and the FDNY will be over there in a flash to literally rain on his parade
good luck - sounds annoying!
Posted by: gemini10 at July 15, 2009 10:40 AM
The Williamsburg hipster douche roman candle team can take care of it.
Posted by: dittoburg at July 15, 2009 10:52 AM
ditto, I was thinking along the same lines, only slightly less criminal. Several well-aimed water balloons filled with other things...
Minard, folks who respond as you do always make me pause and scratch my head. Are you willfully obtuse to someone's experience and anger? Or do you simply enjoy rubbing a little salt into the paper cut?
Posted by: Nokilissa at July 15, 2009 11:23 AM
Noklisa, what a mean comment to direct at me.
I look at things rationally and in this case, having a tent or drinknig in the back yard are not illegal. They're just not. It could be different if they are actually building an addition and disguising it as a tent, but the original posting did not give that impression.
This is a real estate blog, not an emotional support group. People should be honest.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at July 15, 2009 11:56 AM
I agree with Minard. Having a tent in your backyard is NOT illegal, nor is drinking there. If they are making too much noise there's an established (and probably useless) procedure for dealing with it, but if you don't like the tent, too bad.
I have an large umbrella in my backyard, as do many of my neighbors. Would you complain about that? Rainwater problems? Don't you have anything more worthwhile to worry about?
Posted by: slopenick at July 15, 2009 12:05 PM
Look, it wasn't that you pointed out practical considerations, or didn't shed light on what is legal or illegal. It was the condescending tone and the way you went about it. You essentially pointed out the obvious in a rather obnoxious way, and then pretended to suggest something useful - but not really (as in, you can TRY it, you little whiner, but you'll probably get in trouble too.)
Honesty per se, had little to do with your response. Imo.
Why bother? Clearly, the op feels angry and desperate, and you probably would too if you had a giant plastic eyesore (not to mention fire hazard) smack against your backyard, had cigar and cigarette smoke pouring into your windows at all hours, had loud booze-fests going on under your nose (and ears) well into the night, and finally, when you'd tried to approach the person responsible, he'd shown himself to be a little prick who couldn't care less about anything other than his own wishes.
So while you are probably right that these things are not necessarily illegal, can we at least acknowledge its being a royal pain in the ass, that the neighbor is being an ass, and that the op just might be able to rectify the situation through legal means?
Posted by: Nokilissa at July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
And Slopenick, please. No one was comparing a large table umbrella to a giant circus tent that essentially comprises the entire yard, nor were rainwater problems even mentioned by the op. They were suggested by someone responding. Trying to be useful, unlike you and Minard.
Posted by: Nokilissa at July 15, 2009 12:40 PM
I agree with Minard. What sucks here is that I don't think there's much you can do. You just got served some really bad luck. Kinda like having a neighbor whose baby cries all the time. I live near a community garden (hahah what a joke; the keys belong to a bunch of nutty alcoholic "old timers" who threaten people with getting their guns and shooting them, and blast music at extreme decibel levels all saturday and sunday) and there's nothing anyone can do. You call 311, you call the cops, and as long as they are within the law, my definition of nuisance (noise that forces me to leave my house for the weekend) is not the law's definition of nuisance. Bad luck for us. But hey if you can put a dent in his tent, so to speak, let us know how you did it!
Posted by: iz at July 15, 2009 12:46 PM
Thank you so much 60designers! The Code you posted clearly shows the tent is in violation of the law, and in so many ways. It it about 1-1/2 stories high, almost butts my property line fence, and he does use a fire pit and grill close to the tent. As to other posters, there is no comparison between a large umbrella and this tent- its more like what you see outside Ethical Culture when they host wedding parties.
Posted by: BB at July 15, 2009 12:47 PM
I wonder if the OP can do something equally obnoxious and equally within the law as retaliation. Any ideas? I mean, f- it. If we are indeed allowed to impose our disgusting personal habits on the world around us, what kind of habits would this tent-building jerk off find unbearable? Not a very mature approach but fun to imagine at least, no? I'm thinking -- high wattage throbbing light onto his property/into his windows?
Posted by: iz at July 15, 2009 12:54 PM
Now iz, I LIKE the way you're thinkin'!
Posted by: Nokilissa at July 15, 2009 1:13 PM
I had a friend in London who was battling loud music. She took her own boombox outside & sang Wagner along w/ it. Neighbor got the point in no time flat.
Posted by: Arkady at July 15, 2009 1:36 PM
HAHAHA! Wagner gets 'em every time.
Posted by: iz at July 15, 2009 1:37 PM
Well if what you heard was true the cement maybe dry by now and I'm guessing the festivities are scheduled for this weekend.
I still think reaching out to owner with a firm letter ASAP will work in your best interest. It will not only prove you're the bigger person it will save you from any awkwardness you might feel after NY's Bravest bumrushes the party and takes down the tent leaving you alone to deal with the angry mob who saw your pointer finger. You'll be hated on big time for years by tenant and the owner.
Also tit for tat with the neighbor's tenants is fun to blog about but not a practical solution... you might find a brick thru your rear window or your petunias uprooted on move out day :(
Posted by: jack slade at July 15, 2009 2:25 PM
Slade, I did say the tit for tat was just for imagination-venting purposes, not for actualising.
I agree that this tent guy seems unhinged and off his chain just by the size of his ambitions (CONCRETE????? AND HE's A RENTER?), and a show of respectful displeasure might be a good first step, but it seems unlikely that someone with such delusions of grandeur, literally, is gonna give a crap about a letter or a polite knock on his door. Who cares what his probably equally obnoxious friends feel about the finger pointer? Bullies shouldn't be tolerated and their threatening pose should be diffused ASAP.
Posted by: iz at July 15, 2009 2:35 PM
But man would this make good reality tv.
Posted by: iz at July 15, 2009 2:35 PM
Dealing with neighbors is a price you pay for living in a city. I imagine part of the appeal of suburbs back in the day was that people were able to escape all of the difficulties dealing with neighbors (noise, tree branches hanging over your property resulting in bird doo on clothes on lines (the old days), ugly paint jobs and structures, etc.). For those of you who were raised in the suburbs and moved to the city (I would bet the OP falls into this category), you bring your suburban expectations with you. Sorry, these are things you have to deal with when you live on top of one another. As a city dweller all my life, I am able to tune out most of these things. Of course, if your neighbor is breaking the law (excessive noise at 4 am- note that speaking in a normal or low tone is not enough), you call the cops or go to your councilperson, etc. and demand results. You will get them, unless you are being unreasonable. If they are making as much noise as you imply, other neighbors would be complaining, too. You can talk to them to create a united front. But, my suspicion is that you simply don't like having to deal with others (perhaps rude people) and expect that your needs supercede all others. Your initial complaint is that you simply do not like this tent. You did not cite any safety concerns. It's just aesthetics for you. Well, tough, other people have different aesthetics and as long as they are expressing those aesthetics on their property, you're just going to have to deal with it- or move back to the suburbs.
Posted by: orestes at July 15, 2009 2:45 PM
Also, using the law to thwart your neighbor because you don't like what they've done with their property is generally considered bad form by urban dwellers and will not foster good relationships with your neighbors.
Posted by: orestes at July 15, 2009 2:48 PM
Funny thing...does this ring a bell?:
July 4, 2009
Backyard large tent for party
Hi, this may be off topic, but Im looking to rent a 20 by 20 tent to put in a back yard for a wedding, to protect against rain. Does anyone know an inexpensive place. So far my consults seem pretty pricy..
Thanks! Happy 4th!
Posted by guest at 6:10 PM | Comments (1)
COMMENTS
screw renting just buy.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200312379_200312379
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200322687_200322687
Posted by: armchairwarrior at July 4, 2009 9:17 PM
Posted by: kelly at July 15, 2009 3:16 PM
Just wanted to put it out there Iz. I also wrote send the letter to the owner not the tenant next door.
Yes bullying should not be tolerated but waiting for the party to happen then sticking "the man" to a bunch party goers after blogging about it for days prior is um well kinda a bitch ass move. No offence Op.
There's still time to be proactive.
Posted by: jack slade at July 15, 2009 3:34 PM
Yeah, I guess the part that doesn't make sense to me is why a renter would spend thousands of dollars buying and installing a tent for a property they don't own.
And if they are renting the tent from an rental company, it costs a LOT per day and I can't imagine spending this inordinate sum of money ($100s of dollars a day) just so they can smoke cigars outside when it happens to rain.
OP have you talked to the neighbor specifically about this tent or are you just complaining about noise/smoke/etc in general to them?
Posted by: setancre at July 15, 2009 3:50 PM
I'm with orestes on this. I mean if they didn't have a tent you would just be looking directly at them smoking and drinking. I don't get the anti-tent thing. Maybe it's one of those cultural clashes so common in our multi-cultural city.
Maybe the tent reminds the tenant of evenings spent in the old country. Greeks love their tents. so do Spaniards and most everybody from a country that fronts on the Mediterranean. It comes in handy when it rains too.
Posted by: Minard Lafever at July 15, 2009 5:15 PM
Another neighbor told me that the tent was purchased for something like $47 or $67.
Posted by: BB at July 15, 2009 5:39 PM
Well, then, if that's true it probable won't last that long.
Posted by: kelly at July 15, 2009 5:58 PM
You shouldn't be dealing with the tenant. You should be contacting the owner.
Posted by: donatella at July 15, 2009 7:06 PM
In a novel approach, I am going to ANSWER THE OP'S QUESTION. Ira Levine on Court Street is a great real estate attorney. I don't know if he specializes in the areas you need, but I bet he can point you to to a good local lawyer who does.
Good luck.
Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at July 15, 2009 8:40 PM
I highly doubt that a tent of the magnitude you describe, requiring a cement foundation, cost $47 or $67. I don't think you could purchase a tarp that size for that price. Since some posters are quick to call tent guy a prick, let's play devil's advocate for a second. Did you ever think that he got the tent to create some privacy? Perhaps he was hoping it would create a sound and smoke barrier in response to your complaints. Maybe it is temporary and he is the poster looking for a large tent for a wedding.
You have to realize that, as others have said, this is NYC. There are millions of people living here and they do not all work a 9 to 5 job or keep "normal" hours. In this city outdoor space is coveted and some people like to sit in their yard with friends and have a drink and smoke cigars. Maybe this guy rented this apartment just because it had a backyard where he could entertain and his hopes were squashed when he discovered his neighbor was sensitive to noise and smoke. Maybe the OP is the prick for seeking counsel because someone put up a tent on their own property? My neighbor likes to keep rotting rolls of carpet and computer towers and an old toilet in his yard, all in plain view from my deck. I pray everyday that he will erect a tent so I don't have to look at it anymore, but maybe I should just hire an attorney.
Posted by: boofer at July 15, 2009 10:21 PM
boofer,
It's not illegal for your neighbor to keep rotting rolls of carpet and computer towers and an old toilet in their yard because those items do not pose safety hazards. However, constructing a tent in a rear yard may violate NYC code if it is erected without necessary permits and without adhering to the size and setback limitations set forth by the code. It's all about fire safety, and the OP is perfectly within his/her rights to research, complain, and challenge the erection of the tent if it does not comply.
Posted by: 60designers at July 16, 2009 3:08 PM
Clearly, this homeowner is not the most respectful or desirable neighbor either. I am wondering why there was a need to emphasize the point that the person putting up the tent is a renter. As a homeowner and a renter I understand well both sides of the coin. Thankfully, I do not have attitude about renters, but that does not mean I cant read between the lines. What can I say, I dislike short sighted snobs more than smokers. I find it very revealing BB finds excuses for not utilizing a rational, neighborly approach immediately prior to beginning a new sentence complaining about the renter smoking in his own home. I mean really, let a man live! Why not better serve your neighbors and humanity by joining the pickets outside big tobacco companies - Hint Hint - who is the bully here? Talk about a coward with no regard for being a good neighbor - whew! As for the tent being illegal or a fire hazard - sure - if that is the case address the issue but BB's greatest concern was regarding the tent being an eyesore. Hmmmm - BB does not sound like the kind of homeowner I want to live near. If you ask me BB is a controlling domineering type whose house is probably just as cute as an easter egg. No one on this blog knows a thing about this renter, yet the man is being characterized as a prick. Nice - keep listening to BB. Frankly, If I were BB I would be more concerned with finding a Slander defense attorney than dreaming up a million ways to ruin this neighbors life.
Posted by: sam3 at July 16, 2009 10:18 PM
I pitched a huge tent this morning. I did not receive any complaints...
Posted by: newsouthsloper at July 17, 2009 2:30 PM
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