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July 16, 2009
Labor Cost for Bath Reno?
We are going to gut renovate our 7.5' x 5.5' (w 9' ceilings) master bath. How much would you estimate labor to cost for the following: no plumbing has to be moved, extra electric line to be installed for towel warmer, and extra outlet put in by toilet. A soffit has to be demolished, storage cabinet and medicine cabinet needs to be recess-installed, a couple of shower/storage niches to be built-in. Tiling will be floor to ceiling. Steam shower glass enclosure to be custom installed (fixture already exists). Everything will be swapped out, including floor. We rec'd a quote which seems high. (It does not include the fixtures, which we've priced out separately.) Thanks.
Also, we are renovating a 4.5' x 5' powder room: tiling, pedestal sink, toilet needs to be ripped out. Replace sink, toilet, medicine cabint, light fixture, install towel ring...pretty straightforward. Painted walls will just be tiled 4' high, floor tiling will be replaced (replace mosaics with 12 x 12, so less work, IMO, than mosaics.) How much should contractor fees be for this, separate from fixtures and fittings?
Comments
No more than: 20x the cost of your Toto washlet toilet, plus the yearly electric bill for the towel warmer and the increase in gas heat for the shower but not including Obama's new carbon tax on consumption.
Seriously, people can spend 5k to 50k on a bath renovation. Yours seems very high end, expect high-levels of compensation for the construction. I doubt you'll be using handymen as I do. And, to top it all, you didn't bother to say what your quote IS?! Weird.
Also, fwiw, tiling to the ceiling makes it look like it belongs in an institution.
Posted by: cmu at July 16, 2009 8:45 AM
We received 5 quotes between $10,000 and $28,000 for a much simpler 4' x 7' bathroom last Fall, no materials included. No heated anything, no steam shower, no glass, just a plain, simple (small) bathroom gut and replacement of tub, sink, toilet, recessed medicine cab, floor, walls, tile, paint.
Not sure what kind of quote you got but if it's anything south of $20,000 you are doing very well. I would probably expect somewhere between $15-$30k for the first bathroom. Glass is expensive for the steam shower, there is extra prep work involved in the shower walls to prevent mold (kerdi membrane behind the tile), etc. Not saying this is a "fair" price just what I would expect to be quoted if I was planning your project.
All above is assuming you use licensed and insured general contractor. Of course you can do it much cheaper using handymen, or skipping the GC and subbing out the job yourself if you have time and knowledge of the trades involved.
Posted by: setancre at July 16, 2009 9:38 AM
Architect here. cmu is right, but I'd venture to say labor on gut renovations of 2 bathrooms is closer to 20-30K than 5K.
I'd like to add that in the past year or so contractor pricing has been all over the place. Some are pricing jobs high because they are trying to compensate for lack of work, some are pricing jobs low because they are trying to be extremely competitive (with the possible intention of covering themselves on change orders). It's impossible for us to answer your question. One thing is for sure, you have nearly every trade in the book in your renovation (demolition, plumbing, electric, tiling, plaster, millwork, etc) so you'll be paying a premium. These are not large spaces, so GC coordination amongst all the different trades will make this job more costly to the contractor per sq ft. Usually the smaller the job the higher the overhead and profit for the contractor, otherwise the job is usually not worth the effort. This is fairly typical.
If you want more competitive pricing, bid it out to at least 6 contractors. It's the only way you'll be able to know if the pricing you're getting is truly competitive.
Good luck, and feel free to email me if you have further questions.
60designers@gmail.com
Posted by: 60designers at July 16, 2009 9:39 AM
btw, the medicine cabinet and storage cabinet are ready-made, 'just' need to be recessed into wall.
the quotes you guys are giving me seem to place mine in the ballpark, though on the higher end. i understand that higher-end materials usually = higher labor quotes. i think i'd still feel comfortable with them lowering each room by at least 3k. the bathroom quote seems fine, a bit high. however, powder room seems really high.
cmu, i didn't list quotes--it's not weird--bc i didn't want the quotes given to me to affect what people responded here with.
thanks for the responses. very helpful.
Posted by: jungular at July 16, 2009 10:20 AM
I've lost count of how many bathrooms I've done over and these prices quoted astonish me. People on this site seem to equate "high-end" with high cost, but as most people know, it is possible to get great quality in this city for a very reasonable price--if you know where to look. In other words, don't expect a high estimate from a contractor to guarantee beautiful work. And vice-versa.
Get more quotes. If you want a reference for someone who has done great work for me and others I have recommended him to, let me know how to contact you.
Posted by: dylanfan at July 16, 2009 11:20 AM
dylanfan, i'd be interested in the reference you mention. in a similar boat to poster, but my bathroom is not that complicated or high end, although i am swapping out a tub for a shower ... would you mind posting the reference info here?
Thanks
Posted by: greenwoody at July 16, 2009 11:33 AM
Prefer not to. Any contact info you could give me? Would be happy to supply you with more info.
You know how you can get a *great* dinner that astonishes in NYC for practically nothing? And also how you can go to a heavy-star place for a really special occasion and get food that's nearly inedible?
I don't think the people on this site understand that....
Posted by: dylanfan at July 16, 2009 11:49 AM
yea i hear you. i did a lot of the work on my kitchen myself with the help of a couple of friends and a professional plumber. didn't cost a ton but looks like it did.
you can email me at zfarha AT gmail DOT com
Thanks!
Posted by: greenwoody at July 16, 2009 12:03 PM
dylanfan,
Noone said anything about needing to pay premium prices to get decent work. What I said was that if your renovation is small but involves numerous trades (especially ones involving plumbing and electrical), contractors tend to charge premium prices per Sq Ft because it requires more coordination and the sequencing of construction is more work. That's a fact. Is it possible to find someone to do the work cheaper? Of course. That's why I suggested pricing it with over 6 contractors. If you really know someone who can do excellent work at rock-bottom prices, that's great...and I hope the OP uses your contact successfully. But in most scenarios you get what you pay for.
Posted by: 60designers at July 16, 2009 12:06 PM
Dylanfan, my kitchen renovation including all materials, cabinets, new appliances, stone counters and labor ended up costing $12,000 for 3x the amount of square footage of the bathroom. We could do a lot of that ourselves and replacing a dishwasher is a lot easier than replacing a bathtub. Finding a licensed and insured contractor (as our co-op required) to do a cramped, tiny bathroom for a low price is not as easy as you make it out to be. Most contractors have other jobs they'd rather take (maybe that has changed in recent months) and threw out numbers that really made it worth their while to deal with doing this small, tedious job. It ended up costing us about $17,000 for the bathroom (labor and materials included) which was just about 50% more than the much larger kitchen with the same quality of finishes (both very nice but not uber-high end).
As I said in my first response, if you don't need licensed and insured contractor of course the price will go down a lot. I don't think paying more guarantees better work and never implied that, I was just sharing my experience of how much things cost based on 5 real-life labor-only bathroom quotes I received less than a year ago.
Posted by: setancre at July 16, 2009 1:36 PM
We renovated our small bathroom before we moved into our co-op. The size of our bathrooms are similar. We did not do steam shower nor electrical work. Excluding materials (because we sourced everything ourselves, the labor was approximately 8k, give or take. I cannot give an exact number because we also renovated our kitchen and the labor cost we paid was for the whole apartment. But I feel comfortable saying approximately 8k. Keep in mind that even if the contractor has guys available, only one will be able to fit into the bathroom with his tools and such, so the project can take longer than expected.
You can see the renovation here:
http://donkeehouse.com/?cat=6
Posted by: bitdot at July 16, 2009 3:01 PM
In our previous place, we gut renovated a small bath (about 4 x5.5) for 10-12K *including* all materials, and it came out beautifully. We used nice fixtures (Duravit) and lovely, simple finishes. One of the things I miss about our old apartment!
Posted by: Miss Muffett at July 17, 2009 12:21 AM
If you are looking for nice work to be done in your home or property, We can work with you on whatever you would like repaired , built or fixed. just give me a call Steven 646-996-9627 , here is a link to some of our work.
http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af146/steven2667/
Have a great day.
Posted by: steven2667 at August 3, 2009 9:48 AM
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