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July 1, 2009
How to Assess Potential Tenants?
We are landlords for the first time— the space is kind of weird studio rental in our house. Are there some steps we should take before renting the space? Are there any online links to help people like us assess potential tenants? Thanks
Comments
Trust your instincts within the law. Do your own credit, criminal, housing court background check. Yearly income should be approx 40x the month's rent although, you should take into consideration savings and other assets, a guarantor if its slightly under. As you will be living there so make sure you explain the house rules up front: access to common areas, noise, guests etc, etc. ALWAYS GET YOUR FIRST MONTHS RENT/SECURITY IN CERTIFIED FUNDS. Good Luck.
Posted by: Crownlfc at July 1, 2009 12:21 AM
A-55 Bloomberg leases are the rule of thumb for most rentals. Review one to see if there are any extras you want to add - for instance about recycling which I stipulate in mine.
Posted by: Arkady at July 1, 2009 9:27 AM
quote:
"you should take into consideration savings and other assets"
um, no, you really shouldn't. it's a studio apartment. not a luxury penthouse.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 9:46 AM
Totally agree with rob. There is absolutely no reason you should take into consideration a tenants ability to pay the rent. Income level really only comes into play when you start talking about apartments that are over 1,200 square feet. Even meeting the tenant during the vetting process is a tad bit intrusive.
Posted by: king of the burg at July 1, 2009 10:05 AM
I agree that instincts play a large part in who I rent to. Run a credit check, get pay stubs, and a few bank statements and maybe speak with a past landlord or an HR person at their place of employment. You can actually tell a lot by examining a person's statements - look at their spending habits and where the transactions take place or even the date. Generally I rule out anybody who uses their debit card at a bar 7 days a week. After performing the above and meeting prospective tenants everything usually falls into place and a favorite emerges.
Since you live in the building it is also nice to find a person who isn't around very much. I find people who travel for a lot for work the best. They are never around and they seem to have very stable employment.
The apartment leases available at REBNY (https://store.rebny.com/store.jsp) are much more comprehensive and worth the extra few dollars (definitely not the place to cut corners). I find it easier to strike out a few non-applicable terms then add a bunch. They also (supposedly) offer more protection for the owner than the standard Blumberg forms.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 10:17 AM
Um I don't get that Burg comment at all, and I appreciate the question-- it is hard to figure that out.
We've been renting two apartments to people we found on Craigslist for about 10 years, and it's gone incredibly smoothly (knock on wood!).
We just ask the tenants to submit an application that lists basic info- their employers, current landlords, etc. We also ask them to submit a credit report that they can get online for free (myfico.com or whatever, I forget).
And meeting the tenants is absolutely essential. In every case, we've had more good applicants than one-- I mean, there are several people who seem really responsible, with decent jobs & good credit reports and all of that-- so it ultimately comes down to who we prefer as a neighbor (esp. important since we live in the building, too).
That made me uncomfortable at first, because it's sooo subjective, but we try to just think about things like diversity and fairness and all of that as we make our choices, and then we choose the person who seems like he/she will be easiest to communicate with over the long haul.
It's worked out great. We've had several different kinds of tenants--old/young/black/white/gentrifier/not-gentrifier-- and we've had friendly & positive relationships with all of them. It also helps if you don't try to raise the rent in a greedy fashion, of course :)
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 10:19 AM
quote:
You can actually tell a lot by examining a person's statements - look at their spending habits and where the transactions take place or even the date.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? looking specifically where someone spends there money? get outta here, you people are insane. good luck finding the "perfect" renter :-/
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 10:20 AM
Um, okay, Wrath, although that advice is certainly practical, I'm not sure it's great to be looking through bank statements and making judgements based on them. Ethically, that bugs me. A lot.
That being said, I turned over our bank statements when we were looking for an apartment -- it just never occurred to me that our amazon.com and fresh direct habits were going to be scrutinized. Is that even legal?
Posted by: Heather at July 1, 2009 10:23 AM
"i dont want tenants who are around very much"
- okay that is just giving me severe heartburn.
i hope none of my future landlords are like some of you. sheesh
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 10:24 AM
First I was amazed that Burg said don't meet the renters; then I was scandalized that other landlords look at specific spending patterns. As a landlord, I really think that's *none* of my business.
And in fact I spend money in some pretty stupid places sometimes, too, and I'd hate to have to talk about that with my tenants. As long as they can pay the rent, it's not my business to inquire how they do it.
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 10:27 AM
burg was being sarcastic about the dont meet the renters comment hahah.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 10:29 AM
"Run a credit check, get pay stubs, and a few bank statements and maybe speak with a past landlord or an HR person at their place of employment. You can actually tell a lot by examining a person's statements - look at their spending habits and where the transactions take place or even the date."
wow, wrath- you really must be kidding.You have no right to look at anyone's bank statements and pass judgement on their spending habits. All you have to know is can they pay their rent and are they responsible people. That's what references are for. How about you let your tenant do the same so they don't get stuck with a deadbeat or criminal landlord? Talk about obnoxious. I feel sorry for anyone who is a tenant of yours, that's for sure.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 10:30 AM
oh ok sorry I missed the sarcasm- hadn't had coffee yet. thanks for clarifying.
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 10:33 AM
I was poking fun at Rob's comment. Of course you should meet your prospective tenants and make sure they can pay the rent. that is being a responsible landlord. Use a standardized lease, verify income, and run a credit check.
Posted by: king of the burg at July 1, 2009 10:36 AM
I would hire a private dick to follow them around for a week before allowing them to sign a lease. :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 1, 2009 10:37 AM
Rob,
If you were looking to rent the apartment in my house, I would want to know if you could continue to pay rent if you lost your job. That's why I would want to know if you have any savings. I also would want to know that you are responsible and generally live within your means, so I would want to see a credit report. I wouldn't be looking at bank statements to see what you spend your money on. I just don't want to get stuck with someone who suddenly can't make the payments. If you find that too intrusive, you would not be the right tenant for me.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 1, 2009 10:38 AM
It was very funny, burg. But rob made a good point, especially based on wrathofgates' post. as a tenant, I'm happy to verify my income and have credit checks done- but show bank statements and assets? Would a landlord do the same for me? Why would I show that very personal information to a perfect stranger?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 10:43 AM
When a building is owner occupied basically anything goes.
Rob - why, given the choice of having a tenant who works from home or one that travels 3 weeks a month (all other things being equal) would I choose the person who is around all the time? I have lowered the rent for people who travel a lot to reflect the reduction in utility usage and wear & tear on the building. If you were an owner you would fully understand this simple fact. And no worries Rob - I doubt you would even get past the initial interview in the process for "landlords like us".
ABSOLUTELY check their spending habits. I've had statements from people who make over 100K but spent the majority of their income eating out and on clothes leaving a very narrow margin for paying things such as rent and bills. If you apply for a mortgage the lending bank is as intrusive - probably more so in this market.
I have found 4 tenants that I consider perfect over the last 6 years. Judging by the low turnover I have had, we cohabitate very well. You also don't want one tenant making life hell for another.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 10:44 AM
some people dont have much savings, or none at all. ESPECIALLY people renting a studio apartment. and some people have strange credit reports that DO NOT REFLECT WHETHER THEY CAN PAY THE RENT OR THEIR SPENDING HABITS! but yes i can see the landlord's perspective too, but still, some people just take it to the extreme.
and it's a given and proven fact that almost everyone's #1 bill and priority is the rent. like that mya song goes, nothing going on but the rent! she should change the next line from from, gotta to have a J-O-B- if you wanna be with me, to gotta have a j-o-b- (but not spend your money on frivilous things) if you wanna rent from me!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 10:49 AM
slopefarm- I can understand your reasoning, but then would I be out of bounds to ask to see your assets and bank statements so I don't have to worry that you will miss your mortgage payments and lose your house? The house I live in? Because that is certainly an issue these days. And will you provide proof you will take care of repairs and bug control and heat and keep the common areas clean like you're supposed to? After all- if you fail to keep up your payments, I am out a place to live and I have a boatload of expenses to find another.I don't have a problem with providing information- but some things are overly intrusive and no one's business but mine.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 10:50 AM
funniest question i was ever asked from a potential landlord: "do you have loud sex? because there is an elderly woman above you." wtf?
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 10:54 AM
I thought that Crownifc meant that savings get taken into consideration in a positive way-- like, if the person doesn't make a lot of money, he/she might be able to pay the rent anyway if there's extra $ coming from someplace besides employment- like savings.
That makes sense.
We don't normally ask to see how much savings ppl have, but one of our tenants doesn't make a lot of $$ and she knew that it might be a problem, so she volunteered to show us her savings account- because she'd gone from a higher paying job to a lower paying one.
Basically, I think that if a person has a good credit report and a sane job history, and you think that they seem reasonable, then they'll probably be a good tenant,
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 10:57 AM
I am a landlord of a 2BR duplex in PS, so typically my tenants usually have high paying jobs or as in the past with 2 of my former tenants they were students with parental guarantors. I wouldn't base my renting to a potential candidate based off their spending habits, but seeing that they DO have a savings account or some other account gives them an edge. I agree with Slopefarm that you do want to make sure that the person has a backup (whether it's a parent who makes alot of money and or has a large savings account or whether they do) if they were to lose their job.
I don't care if the person works from home or is away. I actually prefer if they are home more than I am, so I know someone is in the house in case something goes awry.
To each their own I suppose
Posted by: gemini10 at July 1, 2009 10:57 AM
Wrath, you are so out of line it's shockingly despicable.
Under NO circumstances should anyone EVER allow a potential landlord to view their 'statements'. It crosses so many privacy lines it's insane.
Talking to an HR person at work? Are you OUT OF YOUR MIND? Who would allow that? I worked in HR and I would NEVER speak to ANYONE about my employees. Do you know the potential for lawsuits you'd open yourself up to?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:00 AM
I think you, Isty and gem sound like reasonable people and are landlords who tenants feel comfortable with. Wrath sounds like they're coming from a position of not liking tenants before they ever meet. Sorry to get so touchy about it- but its appalling the way some landlords think they own tenants.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:01 AM
You are wrong Bxgrl. If I am renting an apartment to you I have every right to protect my investment in any way I choose. Examining a potential tenant's spending habits is an absolute necessity. References are good but not always an accurate indicator of future tendencies.
If the right tenant was concerned about the stability of my building financially I would gladly show them anything that would alleviate their concerns or put them in contact with past tenant. Most of that information is available via the Internet.
Have you ever used a broker? In my personal experience I have always had to hand over my 3 previous bank statements. What do you think that is for? Believe it or not, a good broker will go over the statements in a more precise manner than I ever would. They do not want a client to complain about a tenant that they placed.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 11:03 AM
ugh so apparently trustafarians will always have the upper hand? grrr
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 11:03 AM
"When a building is owner occupied basically anything goes."
You couldn't be more wrong.
Tenants, potential and or otherwise have the right to privacy no matter how invasive their landlord might want to be.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:07 AM
Vinca???? Is Vinca in the house?
What does the law say about this?
I rented for 25 years and have NEVER provided that information. Nor would I.
So now you find out I have a cr@pload of money sitting in the bank....
-Next rent increase you're already thinking I can withstand a higher hit.
-You've seen all my info? So when my identity is stolen and sold off do I send the authorities to your door?
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:12 AM
Employment letter (or some proof of funds from guarantors) is always necessary. Every company I have heard of uses a standard form.
I have always been asked for bank statements when I have rented a place but never assumed anyone would look through my spending habits.
I own a place overseas which is rented and the broker there always sends me copies of bank statements for tenants. I am conflicted. I do feel a bit embarrassed when I get that much info about people and worry about information security but I don't look through in any detail.
Unfortunately the need for info is the flipside of the difficulty of evicting bad tenants, few as they are.
Posted by: etson at July 1, 2009 11:12 AM
"Examining a potential tenant's spending habits is an absolute necessity. References are good but not always an accurate indicator of future tendencies."
spoken like a true control freak. I have news for you- life happens. Sh*t happens. the idea you can read someone's mind and anticipate the future via a bank statement is so ludicrous it verges on science fiction. How dare you think you have a right or even possess the ability to judge someone else's life?
"I have every right to protect my investment in any way I choose" Oh- and good luck with that. I just envision coming down at 12 am on the day rent is due with your sawed off shotgun, and sleeping outside my door with your bloodhound to make sure the rent isn't a moment late.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:13 AM
25 years? I just aged myself 10 years. yeesh.
15 years.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:18 AM
I think I should ask for medical records too
Posted by: more4less at July 1, 2009 11:20 AM
i always wondered how janet, chrissy, and jack were able to renew their lease for so many years! weren't they always late with the rent!? they were always losing it or some crazy thing would happen, month after month after month! and their rent was only 300 dollars a month! the ropers and the furleys were great landlords! i bet they didnt care that chrissy spend most of her disposable income at victoria's secret.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 11:21 AM
THL- I've seen your picture- you're practically a teenager!
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:21 AM
THL -
The laws are absolutely different for owner occupied buildings than those that are not. Read up on it. Privacy is subjective. The beauty of the market is that if you do not like what one landlord's requirements are there are many other options.
Also, it is legal to call the place of employment to verify if a potential tenant is employed there (with written permission of course).
Rob -
FYI - no trustafarian here. Worked my ass off after college and saved as much as I could. Purchased a house in 2000 before the market exploded and fixed it up over time. If you think working 80 hour weeks in your 20's and spending your free time rehabbing a house is having the upper hand - I'm guilty.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 11:22 AM
But landlords are also neighbors, right? If I were the neighbor and tenant of a landlord who investigated me in the Wrathful way, I think I'd be kind of paranoid and mad all the time. Not good- for the health, the happiness, *or* the investment.
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 11:22 AM
Absolutely M4L- and also a 35 year plan so you know everything they intend to do for the next 35 years- including how many breaths they will take, who they will vote for, what color curtains they will put up and what brand of toothpaste they use. Oh- and what brand of make up the wife uses (in case it causes cancer), and a CAD file showing how they will decorate (of course, it must meet your approval of furniture and accessories).
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:25 AM
So please show us Wrath where the law states that you can deny someone housing for refusing to proved this information?
I'm curious what you're basing this sense of entitlement on.
"The beauty of the market is that if you do not like what one landlord's requirements are there are many other options."
Oh, if you tried to pull anything above the law with me I'd certainly take you to task. Wrong is wrong. If you try to take advantage of me you'll do it to the next sucker.
I'm serious, show us.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:28 AM
bx,
Obviously, I don't go nearly as far as wrath, but the LL is taking the bigger risk, which may warrant obtaining more disclosure. T can always move out (if mid-term, the courts decide whether and how much T owes for the balance of the term). In fact, I once took in a tenant who was breaking another lease because the tenant sounded in the right and I was able to confirm the situation through references. They turned out to be wonderful tenants.
But if T doesn't pay and doesn't move out, LL is stuck for months on end without income. T can also do lots of costly damage to the property. So no, I would not reveal as much to you as I might ask to see from you.
In most cases, I have not asked to see bank statements because I was able to verify enough information rpovided tby the prospective tenants to be satisfied that they would not have trouble paying. But I have always asked for credit reports. And I might ask to see statemetns if the situation called for it. People are generally surprised at how little I ask for, not by how much.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 1, 2009 11:29 AM
Bxgrl,
I once lived in a mutifamily home and one day I was walking in with one of my friends who was spending the week with me for her spring break.
The landlord cornered me by the mail boxes all p.o.'d and said, "You never told us you were having a guest stay the week."
I said, "Nor will I ever." and I walked away.
He started cursing behind me in a language I'm not exactly familiar with but by the tone I could tell he was none too please with my response.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:32 AM
Agree, Isty. You start off a relationship with fear and resentment. I've never had that with any landlord- and I have a great one now- and is also my closest friend. My last one was also a peach and I went out of my way to do things to help around the building. But if wrath were to look at me on paper I'm sure even with the references and credit reports, it wouldn't be enough. Landlords like that no tenant needs.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:32 AM
As I have mentioned before, anybody who has used a broker to rent an apartment has been had their finances reviewed in great detail. Just because they don't tell you doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
No bxgrl you are wrong. If I feel secure renting to you then I know that I will receive a rent check whether it be the 1st, 5th or 15th.
Also, what do you think your credit report is about? It is one method that banks use to predict future tendencies. Do you get angry at them when you apply for credit? Supposedly they are now flagging people for shopping at discount stores and even looking into what people by to determine creditworthiness. Is this wrong? Maybe - but a necessary evil.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 11:35 AM
I think we need to find out for certain what the parameters are as prescribed by law.
I'm sure Wrath is taking liberties because no one has called them out on it before.
I may be overly private but it's because I'm certain I was a great and very respectful tenant. I hold my landlord to the same standard. Be a great landlord and respect my privacy.
There's a line being crossed but I'm not sure where it's supposed to be drawn.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:38 AM
THL, I wonder if my tenants are fazed by the number of overnight guests that I have??
I think Wrathofgates has gravitated essentially to conspiracy theory now.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 1, 2009 11:39 AM
So if that is the case why do you insist on going beyond a credit check?
B.T.W...Still waiting for you to point out the part in the law Wrath.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:40 AM
slopefarm- but you're a reasonable person- wrath is just obnoxiously intrusive. But I still don't agree that a landlord should be able to invade my privacy and provide nothing in return. I agree tenants can screw over a LL and it costs big time. But there are plenty of horror stories from tenants too. Being able to rummage around in my private affairs puts a LL at an advantage- sorry, I don't agree. And any tenant with that hanging over their head would be less inclined to trust the landlord. Give them my bank numbers? The numbers to my pension accounts? Hell no. Sorry- but why should I trust a stranger?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:41 AM
"flagging people who shop at discount stores" wtf? this cant be true!? can it?!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 11:41 AM
Dave- so long as you keep those shock absorbers well oiled nah...
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 11:41 AM
"the ropers and the furleys were great landlords!"
I've never thought about that Rob, but you're right.
"Also, it is legal to call the place of employment to verify if a potential tenant is employed there (with written permission of course)."
I've done this with my tenants, and have also required credit check and paychecks, but not bank statements. I just needed to feel relatively assured my tenant was equipped to pay the rent. I'd also meet with the tenant and use my instincts to determine if they were also INCLINED to pay rent! Of course, nothing is perfect. One tenant I had lost her job, but she told me right away and she continued to pay. This same person had previously had a bankruptcy in her past, but she showed enough evidence when she rented from me that she would pay, and she did. There are no absolutes, the way I see it. You just have to play it straight (landlord OR tenant) and protect yourself, within reason.
Posted by: East New York at July 1, 2009 11:52 AM
A necessary evil? Wrath- you sound so much like an out of control Homeland Security guy. Why live in this country then? If you want a police state there are quite a few you should check out. That said- when you show me your statements and accounts, I'll show you mine. Otherwise, as THL says- why do you need anything other than the credit checks, job verification and references? Do you think you can tell what I will do in the future by knowing how I spend my own money in what store? Only if you're psychic- and I highly doubt that.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:54 AM
bx -- I think we are getting closer to agreement. If I wanted to see a bank statement or some kind of verification of assets, I might be willing to have the account #s obscured. So far, I have't asked for this, but I might move in that direction, for example, if a propsective tenant had unsteady income (own business, freelance) but represented assets to cover the down periods. A clean credit check goes a long way in my book, but it depends on the circumstances.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 1, 2009 11:55 AM
THL -
Can't find the exact law at the moment - real property law 236 maybe - but here is a NY Times article that covers the topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/realestate/your-home-when-owner-rents-out-part-of-house.html
It is not above the law at all. Owners of buildings that they occupy can pretty much set their own rules as long as they do not discriminate by race, gender, sexual orientation etc.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 11:56 AM
Wow...have not thoroughly read most of these posts, and don't think I will. Here's a link to the NYC Commission on Human Rights, which specifies that Fair Housing applies to all abodes, with only EXTREMELY limited exception:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/html/housing.html
I often think about how hard it is for renters to afford and qualify for a place these days. The rent for first apartment I ever had equalled ONE WEEK'S minimum-wage pay. Who can find that today?...even in the most forlorn neighborhoods (which is where all of my first apartments were located). We recently had a choice between two potential tenants: one with much higher income and substantial debt, the other with much lower income and substantial savings. We chose the latter.
As to OP's original question: If the interview process is new to you and you're not feeling entirely comfortable with it, try using a written questionnaire. Once answered, review it out loud with the potential tenant. This is an example of some topics you might want to cover (it's an available link, I'm sure there are better ones to be found): http://www.ehow.com/how_4477629_interview-potential-tenant.html
NYC HPD used to have some great classes for new landlords; it appears they've cut them back, but some still available (click on the "+" to expand the listings): http://167.153.4.72/hepclasses/ViewClassList.aspx
Posted by: vinca at July 1, 2009 12:06 PM
The root of the disagreement here is that I require bank statements. I am sure other people on this board have had to submit them, as have I, in order to rent an apartment. What do you think the landlord was looking at?
Credit reports only give you part of the picture. A person can have a high credit score, carry low balances - if any at all but still have horrible spending patterns.
Call any of the rental offices at the bigger new developments in W'burg, Ft. Greene, or along 4th Avenue and ask what their requirements are. I guarantee you that they are the same, if not in excess of mine.
Rob - there have been a few articles recently about "new" credit monitoring in the NY Times & WSJ - take a look. Not sure if it is true or not but......
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 12:10 PM
Yeay, Vinca. Thanks.
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 12:10 PM
wrath- who are you to judge spending habits? Who the hell are you to pry into where I buy my shoes or if i stop off for a drink on the way home or where I eat? Are you going to honestly tell me you would be willing to show me your finances and statements when I ask you to prove you won't lose your house? Well? Didn't think so.
Your premise is ridiculous and your desperate need to know that much about someone else's life- above and beyond what's reasonable- verges on perversion.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 12:22 PM
BTW, having just more carefully read the Ehow link I provided, I apologize that there is at least one question which is illegal under law ("Ask them if they have children and their ages"). One can ask how many people will occupy an apartment; age, race, sex, sexual preference, etc., are prohibited. There are other aspects of that link that I do not especially care for, but it should still be a useful initial guide for OP. On the much-debated question of who spends what where...
we certainly check references and credit, but we do not review spending preferences, and would never use them as criteria for renting. Who cares whether someone buys their camping supplies at LL Bean, Cabela's or Walmart?
Posted by: vinca at July 1, 2009 12:33 PM
But vinca- is there a legal reason a tenant can be forced to provide that information?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 12:36 PM
Sorry- I meant the bank statements and assets information, not the references and credit checks.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 12:40 PM
bxgrl - you must be hiding some serious bones in your closet.
I would gladly prove the financial soundness of my building to a potential tenant. There is nothing to hide there. As I mentioned previously, most of that information can be found online so why would I deny the request?
My advice to you is to never apply for a mortgage - especially now - because what the banks require border on the absurd. You will feel violated for sure.
It IS reasonable to know how much a future tenant brings in each month and how that money is spent. If a person cuts it close each month without a safety net - well I'm sorry, that person is not for me. I have put a TON of equity (both financial and physical) into my building and I do not want that risk.
Once again, call RE brokers and in house rental offices and you will find out my requests are in line with theirs.
Funny, but I have never had a person balk at these requirements. It could be that they just haven't vocalized it but everybody has seemed fine with them. Maybe because they see a well renovated apartment at below market rates helps - or maybe it is more the norm than you want to believe.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 12:41 PM
WOW!!!
Thank you for all the comments, I will go with instinct and add layers of information to feel better.
This is our first house and the first tenant, so we feel guilty asking for money, but hopefully will not let that effect our judgment.
Posted by: fobsdelhi at July 1, 2009 12:53 PM
No need to get personal, Wrath. It doesn't seem to me like Bxgirl has bones in the closet- an invasion of privacy seems wrong even if you don't have anything to hide.
Posted by: Isty at July 1, 2009 12:54 PM
quote:
"a well renovated apartment at below market rates"
im calling bullcrap on that one.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 12:56 PM
bx,
The question of whether you can be forced to provide info is different than whether it is illegal to ask. If you think a potential LL is asking for too much disclosure, don't disclose it and look elsewhere. LLs are all over the map in what they ask for. The real question si the one vinca is trying to address, whether there is disclosure that the LL is not permitted to ask for by law. But the fact that LL is permitted to ask you for something does not mean you are required to disclose it. You can also ask the LL for any disclosure you want but L doesn't have to give it to you and may choose not to rent to you as a result, if the grounds for not choosing you are lawful.
Posted by: slopefarm at July 1, 2009 12:56 PM
Bxgrl, in my experience, there are many things that have become usual for a LL to request/require that were not previously usual. A bank statement would or could verify savings; a credit check establishes whether someone's level of debt might present too much risk for a given LL, and so on. I am not aware of any laws which either require or prohibit that this information be provided. If I were looking for a rental and found a LL's requirements, inquiries and demands excessive and/or intrusive, I'd be grateful for advance notice that we'd be a bad match.
Posted by: vinca at July 1, 2009 12:58 PM
Actually wrath- I have nothing to hide and the fact that i was with one landlord for over 20 years who was happy to give me great references is proof of that. I just find people snooping that far into my personal affairs offensive. It is reasonable to know how much income a tenant has- how they spend their money- as long as you get yours, is none of your business. How can I be clearer? I'm not applying for a mortgage when I rent. You aren't my bank or my broker.
I understand you have your finances and equity tied up in your building- well, a tenant's life is pretty much dependent on your good humor- or lack thereof. Landlords have the potential and the ability to devastate a tenant in where and how they live and financially.
So again- are you willing to extend the same courtesy to a tenant regarding your finances and assets and spending habits? Should a tenant feel as secure about renting from you as you feel about renting to them? I want to know you're not blowing my rent money on big screen tv's and not paying your mortgage. i want to know if you lose your job do you have enough money to keep your house because moving can easily cost me several thousands of dollars and not only could that seriously dent my savings, but where's the guarantee I'll get security deposits and unused prepaid rent back from you? How about answering my question?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 12:59 PM
thanks vinca, Isty and slopefarm- I realize it is a personal reaction. i have no issues with providing all reasonable information to prove to an LL I will be a good tenant. Especially if the landlord is a homeowner- I know they risk a lot. But the point is well taken- wrath is not the kind of LL or person I would be comfortable with. Only because, for my part, I think someone like that likes to play power games and no one needs that- tenant or landlord.
wrath- one last thing. You claim your information can be found online. I am very sure your bank statements are not accessible, nor would you allow anyone to go over them and look at how you spend your money.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 1:11 PM
When I rent my house, I list credit check, income check, verifiable bank information Statement), etc, upfront. If anyone is uncomfortable with sharing the information, they do not need to apply for the apartment.
In the past I found that the people who put up the most fuss when asking about pay stubs, bank statements, usually have trouble coming up with the monthly rent.
You can call a person's place of employment to verify if that person is indeed an employee. Personal reference is just a friend who thinks he/she is a good person.. meants nothing.
Posted by: ClintonHillGal at July 1, 2009 1:30 PM
i have to say, i've always had to provide bank statements as a potential renter. Not copies, not online printouts, originals. Its not illegal. As for an invasion of privacy, not really. I think if there was something I thought was personal on the summary, I would maybe try to redact it. I think to some extent, if you are a landlord with a tenant IN YOUR HOME, it makes sense that you should get a sense of your candidate on a fairly personal level. Its not like snooping through a stranger's trash. Its not like an potential employer examining your purchases. Its not even like a LL subpoena-ing your private financial info to see where you've been spending your money in an effort to prove your rent-subsidized apartment is not your primary residence. (all of which are also legal, but i think is intrusive, overstepping, and not directly tied to a legitmate interest). Here, again, the person will be living in your house and you will be counting on them to pay you money each month so that you can in turn PAY YOUR MORTGAGE. Not quite snooping.
Posted by: blowfish at July 1, 2009 1:46 PM
I have flat out refused to provide landlords bank statements - I feel it is an invasion of privacy. They only have a right to know:
A) how much money i make (pay stubs, employment letter)
B) that i pay my bills (credit check)
My spending habits otherwise are none of a potential landlord's goddamn business - just as long as i pay my rent every month.
If they want to make sure I am able to pay rent, i'll provide glowing letters of recommendation from previous landlords.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at July 1, 2009 1:57 PM
DH,
bring your medical records with you when you drop by my rental.
Posted by: more4less at July 1, 2009 2:00 PM
haha m4l - would you like a stool sample as well?
seriously - if potential landlords (not referring to the original poster necessarily) are that scared of tenants, don't buy a house where you have to rely on rental income to make your mortgage payment.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at July 1, 2009 2:08 PM
kidding aside, there are tons of rentals out there so if a landlord asks for something you don't want to provide, go to another one. no big deal unless & until ALL landlord asks for this stuff
Posted by: more4less at July 1, 2009 2:09 PM
yeah m4l - my current landlord wanted a bank statement and I told him i would provide him with reference letters instead.
not that my spending habits are bad - It just bothers me that people think they are entitled to your life story to be able to move into an apartment.
That's the risk you run being a landlord - getting a crappy tenant (same with tenants getting a crappy landlord)
Posted by: dirty_hipster at July 1, 2009 2:11 PM
bxgrl -
I would take any steps necessary to prove to the tenant that the building they are moving into is financially sound. I'm not sure banking statements would be the only or best way to prove this but if that is the reassurance they request I am open to it. Really, what do I have to hide? If they want to see my tax returns have at it. I also have more than one account (which isn't a bad thing for anybody) which I use to pay all the bills for the building.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 2:43 PM
Rob -
Call anything you want.
I put a lot of effort into my apartments and lived in each as I finished the unit below. They all have the finishes and amenities I found necessary and enjoy. The apartments are identical in that way to the duplex I currently live in.
Trust me - the rent that I ask is more than fair. I do not need it to pay the mortgage. I NEVER increase the rent for a tenant that extends their lease. As a matter of fact I only receive $100 per unit more than I did in 2004.
Proof of this, even with what is considered my excessive demands and a poor rental market, I had my choice of 5 solid tenants for my last vacancy.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 2:57 PM
wrathofgates- can I also look over and judge your spending habits? Really- I can look at all of your asset statements and see where you shop, if you surf for internet porn, eat at Applebee's? How do I know you aren't a pedophile if I can't see your spending habits? (I would of course expect to see all of your accounts to make sure your assets cover you in case you land in jail for, say, too many parking tickets). I appreciate your answer but are you really going to reciprocate information? You do sound conscientious and you very obviously care about the property and, of course, the kind of tenant you attract. Most tenants wouldn't refuse to give you information because would they have a choice if they want the apartment? But it comes off like intimidation, instead of a business deal- which essentially a rental is.
And blowfish- yes, a lot of what you say is true. But wrath goes beyond that. He wants to look at your life- what you do, where you go, how you choose to spend your income outside of your rent. That is snooping. I have never had to provide a private, personal document like a bank statement. Credit checks, employment, landlord references- yes. My personal life I don't give away. Tenants have a lot at stake too. Maybe not in the same way as a landlord, or with the same financial commitment, but a landlord can ruin your life and break your bank. It works both ways.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 3:19 PM
I don't think I would ask for bank statements as Wrath does, but I think everyone's outrage is misplaced here. You have to consider that once a tenant is in your house it is incredibly difficult to get them out in New York. We have a tenant who looked trustworthy but has totally screwed us over. We have been trying to evict him for almost a year after he stopped paying and he's not out yet. We are excellent, understanding, responsible landlords, and if we choose to ask for bank statements from a future tenant, I don't think it's out of line. They're free to say no and look elsewhere if it sounds too intrusive. Let's not demonize landlords for looking out for our own interests. Landlords in owner-occupied buildings tend to just be ordinary people trying to pay the mortgage and a bad tenant can be financially disastrous, as I've learned the hard way.
Posted by: Kate at July 1, 2009 3:35 PM
With the amount of foreclosues nowadays - i think tenants should look at landlord's finances to make sure they are financially secure and I won't get locked out of my apartment one day by the bank.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at July 1, 2009 3:37 PM
"You have to consider that once a tenant is in your house it is incredibly difficult to get them out in New York. "
that should be considered when you buy a multi-family home.
Although I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. That is terrible and I do agree in many ways NYC is WAY too tenant friendly, which is one reason why if I had the means I would never buy a multi-family house. Good luck.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at July 1, 2009 3:39 PM
There are risks involved in being a landlord. You can't demonize tenants and expect to be able to asses their spending habits.
It's frankly none of your business. If I can confirm steady employment and a clean credit check then there shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks god I bought single family home. I would never want to deal with this crap.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 3:42 PM
"Thanks god I bought single family home. I would never want to deal with this crap."
Maybe I have just gotten lucky but this all seems way blown out of proportion to me. I put my apt on craigslist, got a couple of different couples who wanted the place, picked one and have enjoyed having them as tenants. All this sturm and drang over picking a tenant seems a bit over the top.
Posted by: wasder at July 1, 2009 3:45 PM
in a foreclosure, does a tenant with signed lease be kicked out? was assuming lease is still in effect post a foreclosure
Posted by: more4less at July 1, 2009 3:49 PM
"in a foreclosure, does a tenant with signed lease be kicked out? was assuming lease is still in effect post a foreclosure"
hmm perhaps. i have no idea i was just thinking (or not) on the fly.
Posted by: dirty_hipster at July 1, 2009 3:56 PM
They have been and I seem to remember they just passed a law to try to help tenants stay in their rentals.I don't know the status at this point, but yes- tenants were getting tossed out too.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 4:03 PM
pay stubs, credit check and your gut are all you need. it also helps to call the previous landlord and inquire about late payments, loud parties, pets, etc. in my experience i've found them to be an honest and reliable source. i've also asked for two personal references in the past. that's just an added measure so my tenants know i'm looking for someone responsible.
good luck!
Posted by: greenwood gal at July 1, 2009 4:08 PM
Lots of useless info here.
If you are living in the same house with someone and sharing resources, either renting a unit or seeking a roommate use some simple and direct methods.
Do not rent on the spot. Take you time.
Quick telephone conversation to screen if the candidate is compatible with what you are looking for. Ask them why they are moving. Try to avoid those that are in desperate situations, as they may not be thinking in terms of a longer time frame other than just getting themselves out of hot water (ie. they are getting evicted in 5 days and have not found a place yet and are panicked). Tell them you will not accept payment the same day as you will not rent it on the spot. Set up a meeting. Weed down the candidates.
Have a day or two set aside to show the place: appointment intervals at the half hour mark can be useful. Some will be late and not call, some will not show and never call. You have just eliminated some deadbeats.
After showing the place to the rest (who pass a minimal test of at least being able to meet an appointment) some will not like it. Those are eliminated and save you from fruitless effort. Speak privately for about 10-15 minutes or so with the other candidates. Get a feel for them. Ask the questions directly face to face so you can see their reactions to the questions instead of just the info in the reply. Invaluable insight is gained thereby. If they like the place and are serious about renting, tell them they will need to provide three references. See how they respond. Tell them to get them to you ASAP so you can work on calling them….they can also write them out while they are there and when you meet with the next candidate. Inform them that after checking references if they are selected, they should be prepared to provide proof of income (and whatever other financial info you need) so they should get that prepared. See how they respond. Finally, tell them to sleep on it and think it over, you want someone who will be happy moving in, not someone grasping at the place due to desperation and the difficulty of finding a great place at a great place (if you are rent gouging them, disregard all this advice as you will need to take what you can get).
Request references: previous LL’s, employers, teachers, past or current roommates. Best are those with a professional relationship to the candidate, as they are not bound by ties of friendship to bend the truth.
Call the references. You will know when you get glowing reports about the individual’s responsibility, respectfulness, punctuality, courtesy, etc. You’ll get a good feel about the person. Some candidates will stand out both in your meeting and in their references. You will get a sense of what people are about and also a bit about their lifestyle (you can also have asked those lifestyle questions when you interviewed them). See if the references confirm your personal impressions and intuition.
Further narrow down the candidates.
Form your list you select your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th 5th choice. Call back the candidates and tell them their references spoke highly of them and confirmed your impression, and you would like to offer the rental to them, but you have others in line, so time is of the essence. Request to meet again and tell them to bring proof of income/employment (and any other financial info you may need…I have never needed credit report as this system has never yielded a dud candidate). Tell them also to bring a deposit.
After deposit is paid, set up a date to meet with the prospective tenant ASAP and accept first month rent payment/security deposit, sign the lease, and give them the keys. Call the other candidates to inform them they should consider the place rented, barring a last minute reversal..in which case you will call them ASAP and offer them the place, going down your runner-up line up.
YMMV.
Posted by: Oxygen at July 1, 2009 4:18 PM
You just have to use your intuition, a few external checks, and then just take your chances. There are no guarantees.
Look at the divorce rate. If that is any measure of an individuals flawed judgement about inability to plan and manage their future I'm not so sure what credit reports are going to tell you.
Look at all the corporations with glowing credit agency reports, AAA ratings, the best of references, and enjoying the height of respectability .... that completely sh|t the bed.
You think your bank check and spending habits are going to put you in the winners circle? What we don't know about each other outdistances what we do know...
Posted by: Oxygen at July 1, 2009 4:31 PM
quote:
"I have never needed credit report as this system has never yielded a dud candidate"
:)
i heart you Oxygen!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 4:43 PM
I agree with WOG. If you don't want to share the info simply move on. Why get all pissy? What if you saw super weird stuff on the statements like a subscription to "hitler.com" or enrollment fees for "cannibals r us" ?
I myself request to see the kids report card if he or she is over 13. I wouldn't want some kid cutting class and hanging out on my stoop all day.
Posted by: jack slade at July 1, 2009 4:51 PM
Oh puhlease! You think only tenants subscribe to cannibals R Us? And considering the strange names people register, cannibals R us could be an animal rights organization and hitler.com could also be a history blog pertaining to wwII. Report cards? You've got some nerve. If you need that much control over someone else's life you probably subscribe to Fascists R Us. Don't be a landlord if you can't handle a tenant with a good financial history and good references but refuses to show you his personal statements and kids' report card. You have issues.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:03 PM
"I myself request to see the kids report card if he or she is over 13. I wouldn't want some kid cutting class and hanging out on my stoop all day."
Why don't you also have them sign over DNA samples and submit to random drug testing? I mean why wouldn't they unless they had something to hide??
Seriously dude you need a lesson in boundries.
Oxygen's advice is spot on. Very realistic and well, non offensive unlike Jack and Wrath.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:05 PM
Some people don't understand what the role of a landlord is. They think it gives them carte blanche to delve into the personal lives of those who are paying a premium for the use of living space. Nothing more nothing less.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:08 PM
"I wouldn't want some kid cutting class and hanging out on my stoop all day."
BTW....it's their stoop too. They paid for the use of it.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:09 PM
THL- how about Jack submits to dna and drug tests so that we can verify he has the wherewithal to own a rental property and a police report proving he has a clean police record and is not a serial killer who entices victims via apartments? (I like granite counter tops - but not enough to die for them).
And if I have to show you my kid's report card. I damn sure want to see proof you graduated at least high school.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:11 PM
I'm going toneed tosee your kid's report cards.
Well then obviously 'm going to need to sweep this apartment for bugs and hidden cameras you twisted loon!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:14 PM
Sorry space bar is sticking. I need to find my air can!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:15 PM
THL- make sure you check the bathroom. You never know with guys like that.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:16 PM
jack slade - just FYI, thats an inappropriate acronym you used for wrathofgates
Posted by: dittoburg at July 1, 2009 5:16 PM
TownHouseLady - If the banking crisis had taught us anything it is that a high credit score and a stable job does not always translate to financial responsibility. Think of all of the equity loans that were handed out to this group of people that were used for new cars, vacations and other luxuries instead of to increase the value of their homes. Also, most no-doc loans only required a credit check and a letter for proof of employment(if not self-employed).
Just curious - when you applied for your mortgage did you balk at the banks requests? They too were (or at least should have been) trying to minimize the risk of default.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 5:18 PM
LOL this thread delivered. thanks for the laughs today.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 1, 2009 5:19 PM
No need to apologize. I'm sure Jack won't rent to you anyway because you failed the typing standards and spelling test so you are obviously not educated enough to rent from him :-).
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:19 PM
Knock, kock
Who is it?
The landlord.
Yes?
I've come to check the keystroke logging I placed on your computer.
Excuse me?
Yes, I placed it on your computer so I can record your keystrokes. This way I can make sure that even though you pay rent on time every time you don't go to websites I deem inappropriate for use in my house.
Pardon?
Well, understand it is my house even though you're paying for use of it and if you're looking at websites that have vile content like say...Brownstoner, I need to know.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:21 PM
The bank was lending me a SIZEABLE amount of money HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
So yeah, they kinda had a right to the information wouldn't you say?
You're out of line.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:23 PM
Drama! What no one is allowed to disagree with you 2 birds? A few tenants chimed in and saw no issue with the bank statement request.
So you as a renter would ask a homeowner if he graduated high school if he asked to see your kid's report card? Give me a break with your 20 yrs or renting experience.
THL yes it's their stoop too. What landlord wouldn't have a problem with a bunch teens cutting class and hanging out on in front of their house?
Posted by: jack slade at July 1, 2009 5:28 PM
wrath- its a little- actually a lot- different when a bank asks. If you want to equate yourself with a bank, then you will be providing financial services. but you don't. You are renting an apartment. You are offering someone an apartment, for which they pay you. Just like I can pay for tomatoes at the food market. So far I haven't been asked to provide them with a financial statement to do so. And although the price of food is high, they don't offer loans to buy tuna.
"Think of all of the equity loans that were handed out to this group of people that were used for new cars, vacations and other luxuries instead of to increase the value of their homes." I might also point out to you renters DID NOT default on those RE loans which resulted in our financial collapse. It was homeowners. Supposedly responsible, checked out homeowners. Checked out by the banks and brokers and mortgage holders. Makes you wonder who you really should be worrying about, doesn't it?.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:29 PM
"What landlord wouldn't have a problem with a bunch teens cutting class and hanging out on in front of their house?"
Yo should have a problem with that. I would a well. HOWEVER, it does NOT entitle you access to a child's educational records. That Sir is NONE of your business a a landlord. NONE.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:34 PM
yes, jack- with my 20+ years of renting experience because I, unlike you, know that being a homeowner doesn't automatically make you Einstein or Albert Schweitzer or royalty. it just makes you a homeowner, not landed gentry.
Actually, other people did chime in and say it was out of line. I guess you ignored them.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:34 PM
"They're free to say no and look elsewhere if it sounds too intrusive."
Agreed. This is a pretty simple issue, really.
Posted by: East New York at July 1, 2009 5:35 PM
OK but in some cases (fortunately not mine) people require their rental income to cover their mortgage. You know, the sizable amount they borrowed that has to repaid? Without it, many people would default. Why is it out of line to do all in your power to minimize that risk? In no way am I out of line.
A quick google of the terms "rental brooklyn bank statements" returns hits for most of the big rental buildings such 110 Livingston. Change Brooklyn to NYC and you get even more. Are all these places out of line too?
THL you are just a bit out of touch with reality.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 5:35 PM
bxgrl, you are twisting my words.
I only used that bank crisis as proof that high credit scores and a stable income does not equate to financial stability. If the banks used stricter requirements maybe the crisis (however unlikely) could have been avoided.
My asking is the same thing as a bank asking - a business deal as I believe you referred to it. If you do not like the bank's terms you can choose another bank. If you do not like mine there are plenty more apartments available.
Now, if you made a promise to buy tomatoes at a store for 12 months in advance and that store ordered inventory based on that promise you can bet that they would probably investigate your ability to pay.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 5:44 PM
And what happens when every landlord refuses to rent an apartment without looking into every nook and cranny of your life? Where to move on to? Not that easy or simple.
wrath- I assume most small homeowners need rental income. Certainly that's my landlords situation and I make damn sure she gets paid each month. But that isn't the point. Why should tenants be expected to:
1. be treated like crap just to get in the door?
2. After employment and salary verifications, tax returns,credit checks and work and personal references, be then required to expose personal information to strangers at a time we are being warned to protect our information?
3. What reason is there that a tenant should not demand the same personal information about a landlord? Face it- rent is a sizeable amount of money to pay someone every month. Why should I not expect the same level of guarantees that a landlord expects from me?
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:47 PM
You are not looking to see a bank statement for the same reason a management company is. They're looking for $ in $ out each month. You're looking to see the peoples spending habits. Where and how they spend their money. You're being invasive.
I'm not out of touch. I know exactly where you're coming from.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 5:47 PM
wrath- I'm twisting nothing. You used an example of homeowners who defaulted. In that case you should be more worried about homeowner/landlords than renters.
you're asking for the kind of personal information a bank does is only legitimate if you are providing me with the kind of money a bank will loan me, or if you are the holder for my accounts and offer me financial services.
And I'm sure the store would want some guarantee I could pay- but they still don't ask for my bank statements to see my spending habits, nor do they ask to see my kid's report cards.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 5:52 PM
Money out is pretty much the same as one's spending habits.
If you want to believe it is different and that these places aren't looking at the entire statement, especially in this day and age, feel free to continue on in your own fantasy world.
bxgrl - I never have asked for tax returns and I don't know of many places that do. Most online statements that you print out have the account numbers x'd out as a security measure. A lease has to be honored if the property is sold or transferred so maybe that's why people don't ask more questions regarding a landlord's stability.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 5:58 PM
Lady, a report card will show a bunch of F's and the number of absentees. The teacher may even put a note or 2 stating that the kid never comes to class.
If you would rather wait and see, then fine what ever floats your boat. Me I'd like the freedom to run my business as I choose as long as it's within the law.
BX I did not ignore the others and never said I was royality. Grow up. Your behavior is "bitter like".
Posted by: jack slade at July 1, 2009 5:59 PM
I connect potential renters to an EEG device and ask them to solve tricky math problems while monitoring their beta waves, and interspersing Rorschach images if possible.
Posted by: dittoburg at July 1, 2009 5:59 PM
on the contrary, jack. Your "bitterlike"comment show what you're all about. If anyone needs to grow up and learn how to conduct their business in a professional, instead of neo-fascist manner- it's you.
ditto- math isn't my forte. Can I answer art history questions instead? :-)
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 6:03 PM
"Lady, a report card will show a bunch of F's"
lol @ addressing someone as "Lady". Very Raymond Chandler.
Posted by: etson at July 1, 2009 6:07 PM
jack,
It's private information. I don't care what it shows. You call their prior landlords if you want to predict their future behavior with regard to treatment of your apartment.
I'd have your tail in court so fast if you denied me housing based upon that.
You prey upon people who either don't know better or don't have the means to defend themselves.
You're a scumlord.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 6:08 PM
Why ask for references at all if you're not going to trust the information they relay back to you.
If I can't be denied housing based upon the fact that I have kids you certainly can't deny it based upon the withholding of their private school performance records.
"Money out is pretty much the same as one's spending habits."
No, quite different. If I come out at the end of the month on the plus side it's not your business where it's spent.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 6:13 PM
I thought Oxygen's overview was excellent - although I have asked to see a tax form. I've rented on CL & usually it works just as Oxygen said & tenants have stayed anywhere from 3 to 10 years.
Posted by: Arkady at July 1, 2009 6:17 PM
A tax form is different IMO Arkady. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
It shows total income from year prior.
It's not an itemized account of every place you spent your money for someone else to pass judgment on whether or not they deem those places appropriate or not. I don't want my landlord knowing how much money I dump at Victoria's Secret every month or how much I spend eating out.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 6:22 PM
I agree with that too, arkady. I have no problem handing over a tax statement.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 6:30 PM
scum lord? names, names, names :(
Lady, I would deny you in a heart beat if I can see that your kid was a professional truant. And guess what? I would not tell you the reason. So I guess you would be in court all by your lonely. Oh and calling another landlord who is happy that his trouble maker tenants are leaving his home is the dumbest thing. Will you call them back after the truth is revealed months later? You're newbie roots are showing big time.You're way too emotional for a non-issue.
Posted by: jack slade at July 1, 2009 6:31 PM
Whether someone eats out every day or at home, goes to a bar everyday or drinks at a restaurant or drinks at home,or uses a credit card, an atm card, or pays cash tells you precisely nothing about their savings rate or level of responsibility. So what do you care and what business is it of yours?
Posted by: mopar at July 1, 2009 6:42 PM
Jack,
Truth hurts?
Denying me without a valid reason would land you in court. I'd love to get your name on record for denying housing because I wouldn't provide school transcripts. Would you tell me that's the reason? No, I'd assume it and proceed accordingly.
You prey on people who don't know better. Some of us, non-newbies if you will, know better and will take you to task for it.
Good thing you made everyone aware today of the way not to handle potential tenants.
For the record, denying people housing, it's a big issue.
It's not so much emotion as disgust.
Yes, I'm still going with scum lord. Sounds right to me.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at July 1, 2009 6:56 PM
This is what I have been looking for:
http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/FHLaws/yourrights.cfm
Owner occupied property is exempt from fair housing laws as long as they have 4 units or less - EXCEPT in NY State where it is two units.
Posted by: WrathOfGates at July 1, 2009 7:32 PM
"Good thing you made everyone aware today of the way not to handle potential tenants."
Lady, you're speaking for "everyone"?
I think this is what happens when you're constantly ranting and hijacking threads on brownstoner. You get all delusional thinking the opinions of you and your circle of buddies are the only ones that matter on this site.
And honestly I cant believe an adult wrote that they would take me to court based on an assumption.
here's the line you would hear after I wasted both our times and showed you the entire apt.
"Hey everything looks good and no worries on the report card i hope i didn't offend you. It's just something I ask prospective tenants because my last tenant's kid was cutting class and selling drugs on my stoop. The police arrested her at 11:00 am on a Tuesday.
OK ciao I have several applicants to review. If you hear from me that means the apt is yours. Thank you good luck".
Posted by: jack slade at July 1, 2009 7:42 PM
Jack- ok.I can understand why you want to do that,under those circumstances. But a kid's report card isn't going to give you the whole story, and you would be very surprised at some of the so-called good kids, with great grades, who deal drugs and indulge in bad behavior. You're also demanding to see private records of a minor which is problematical because you have no authority to demand those. You'll probably get away with it because tenants either don't know they can refuse or they desperately need a place to live and are afraid to refuse. That becomes a power trip for you and makes tenants feel like crap.They may not tell you that to your face, but they'll remember it and resent it.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 8:07 PM
Grl, it sucks that you threw me under the bus and called me all sorts of names without thinking of all the circumstances... I can list many.
No question our jails are packed with straight A students, and a report card, bank statement or credit report is just a small peek into understanding a person. But the fact is it helps me in picking the right person that I'd like to share my roof with.
If they sign out of desperation and resent me secretly after... oh well hopefully my request will forever haunt them and it will empower them to get their own place or another rental. That's the breaks. I signed up for it 30 plus yrs ago.
And please you know there's huge difference between the word "demanding" and "asking". You 2 are making up your own pictures and foaming at the jibs on brownstoner for no reason.
Posted by: jack slade at July 1, 2009 11:11 PM
Pitbull and King, I hope for your sakes you're being sarcastic, if not, your naivete is rather shocking.
You're a Landlord, you have a $1000 studio, would you rather:
a) A teacher that makes 38k but has 25k in savings, no debts or
b) A recently divorced store manager making 65k but has piles of cc debt, a care note plus the 400 a week child support for his two kids.
I know who I would choose.
Posted by: Crownlfc at July 1, 2009 11:17 PM
Jack- I didn't call you any names. You should reread what I said- I certainly didn't throw you under a bus. But I do still stand by the word "demanding." If you make it a requirement for consideration, its a demand. Please don't think I don't understand where you're coming from, or that I am completely unsympathetic. But I see no reason to let someone have access to my entire life for an apartment. Not unless you're willing to do the same - fair is fair.
crown- The question isn't who you think- based on salary, references and credit history you should choose. The question is how much information and what kind, you ask for.
Posted by: bxgrl at July 1, 2009 11:48 PM
quote:
"A teacher that makes 38k but has 25k in savings"
LOL x 5000. good LUCK finding a teacher who makes 38K and has 25K in savings :-/ you'd have better luck renting to a unicorn!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at July 2, 2009 9:40 AM
Actually rob, most immigrants are in that league....low wages but saved every penny. My Chinese bf has about $250k stashed away and he's only made about $50k or so every year!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at July 2, 2009 9:43 AM
Teachers salaries aside. Pitbull, you would be surprised who I come across that saves and who doesn't. I do this for a living beleive me, I know.
Posted by: Crownlfc at July 2, 2009 12:21 PM
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