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June 25, 2009
Hiring a Super for Renovation?
The superintendent of my co-op apartment is offering me to do kitchen and bathroom full renovation. His pricing is much lower than general contractors I have interviewed. Has anyone hired a super for a job like this? Any suggestions or comments will be truly appreciated.
Thank you.
Comments
Be careful. If things don't go well, you will have limited recourse to go after him. You will also have to live with him. Then we have some other minor matters like insurance, board approval, and so on. Has he done major work for other shareholders? That would be important to me, before deciding.
Posted by: denton at June 24, 2009 9:45 PM
Usually, you get what you pay for. Check out some of the other renovations that the super completed for other tenants before you hire him.
Almost any shlub can demolish an old kitchen or bathroom and build a new. The question is how long you expect the job to hold up and how perfect you expect it to look.
Posted by: IronBalls at June 24, 2009 9:47 PM
Agreed. A super is a super, and nothing more. Sure he can get deliveries whenever he wants and the elevator as well, but his standards... may be less than super. But you want him on your side, because a super can really delay your project. Perhaps you could tell him you are already committed to certain subs and pay him a percentage to "manage" the project.
FWIW- on a larger project we give the super and elevator operator a "green handshake" to insure proper service- hence the acronym TIPS.
Posted by: southslope at June 24, 2009 9:58 PM
Be very careful on this decision.
More than likely your super is busy with day to day operations of the building. In other words he will send someone else to do the work and just collect money.
In my luxury condo this goes on all day long. The super tells the owner, Sure I will renovate for you for less than a professional. He takes a maintenance man from the building and tells him it is part of his job duties to do this kind of work. The maintenance guy does it cause he is afraid of the super firing him from his job. Who wins the super no one else does not even you. Your paying for nothing.
Another variation of this game goes like this......Your maintenance man will tell you he can do the renovation for less money than the professionals. In reality he will also send somebody else to do the job. The difference in this game is The maintenance man has to give the super his cut just to get permission to do the job.
I think all this business is time consuming, unprofessional and a complete disregard for you as a person and an owner. Your just an easy ticket.
DON't DO It!
Posted by: Ysabelle at June 25, 2009 10:23 AM
The super probably knows exactly what he's doing; after all, he has to deal with the consequences if he screws up, unless he's planning to retire. He has an incentive to get the job done well. And the board must be acquiescent, unlikely the super is going being their backs.
Doesn't anyone trust anyone? oceangrove, I'd use my judgment and common-sense to decide if he's trustworthy and it's worth saving money over.
Posted by: cmu at June 25, 2009 10:30 AM
I've hired the super next door for pretty major work. I've hired my own for things like painting. Ask around. The really skilled supers are well known -- so are the ones who don't know how to do anything other than take out the trash. A few apartments ago, I hired the super to do a basic kitchen renovation. Worked out fine. He wasn't all that detailed, but his price was 1/3 of others and I was happy with a B+ kinda job for the money.
Posted by: Ringo at June 25, 2009 11:00 AM
I think cmu has a point. When I had a coop in Manhattan, the super was quite skilled and he did a lot of work for me--demo, tiling, appliance installation, etc. He was also able to handle things that can be particularly annoying in an apt building--getting trash out and deliveries in, for example.
Definitely see what other work he's done in the building. He might be very competent. Also, if you're basically keeping the same footprint of the existing kitchen and bath, the work isn't necessarily that complex.
Posted by: tinarina at June 25, 2009 11:02 AM
as an aside, theres a NYDN story today about debt including one woman on about $36K a year who spent $180,000 re-modelling her kitchen and bathroom.
Posted by: dittoburg at June 25, 2009 11:07 AM
Sounds like too big a job for the super.. if you are redoing kitchen and bath, what about electrical and plumbing? Maybe give the super a smaller job to see how he does.
Posted by: oe at June 25, 2009 11:26 AM
cmu
what consequences are you referring to? the super is doing an illegal job in the building. If the job goes badly who are you going to call ghostbusters?
I doubt if the super or maintenance people care to make corrections. If they do they will charge extra for the privilege. This is a slippery slope.
It doesn't matter if you are an owner.
What does matter is money.
The condo or coop board can implement a hefty fine per day until a licensed professional steps in.
Oceangrove
If the job is simple with no noise use your super.
Banging out tiles is noisy. Using a wet saw is super noisy. It sounds like you are at the dentist.
Drilling to install kitchen cabinets is noisy.
There is a saying you don't sh*t where you eat.
Posted by: Ysabelle at June 25, 2009 11:26 AM
The actress Patricia Neal had a stroke and hired contractors to do a small bathroom tile job. She paid good money and they ran off and left her with nothing. Some kind hearted person bailed her out and finished the job rather nicely.
Posted by: Ysabelle at June 25, 2009 11:34 AM
The super in a co-op building is working for and paid by the building. If he's performing work for you that goes beyond the co-op's obligations for repairs to any of the apartments, then he's obviously not available to do regular cleaning and maintenance work on the building common areas etc.
Cmu states "the board must be acquiescent, unlikely the super is going being their backs" but I would strenously disagree with that premise. When I became president of the co-op board where I used to live in Park Slope, lousy maintenance work record and performance of the full-time super was discovered to have been largely a result of his having done work (in one case actually off-site) for a prior board member without anyone else knowing. The new board instituted a series of controls that proscribed the super doing any work beyond his responsibilities for the building as a whole. If a shareholder wanted an exception to that rule so he/she could use the super for renovations or whatever, then, if the board approved it, the shareholder was obliged to reimbuse the co-op for the super's time, not pay the super.
The standard of cleanliness and maintenance in the building showed an immediate improvement. Additionally several jobs that contractors had previously been hired for now got done by the super, saving the co-op money.
I think it's inevitable that, in using the super on your renovation, you would be experiencing a benefit at the cost of other shareholders. It ain't what I'd call fair, quite apart from the other "who do you call" red flags raised in prior comments.
Posted by: johnife at June 25, 2009 12:09 PM
I agree with johnife. The super may actually be qualified to do the work, but given the fact that he's doing two jobs at once, he's probably not giving either the attention they deserve. I wouldn't want him for my super, and probably wouldn't want him doing work for me. Plus, in NYC, most coops have a LICENSED contractor rule. Check that. In a building I used to live in, building staff could do SMALL jobs that were outside of coop responsibilities, but it was more of a service/favor to shareholders. I think that's ok.
Posted by: Minmin at June 26, 2009 11:20 AM
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