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June 11, 2009
1094 Park Place
Well here's the update: (scroll down for link to photo gallery)
We BOUGHT IT, or at least we thought we did....
Here's a short version of a two+ month very long story:
We first saw the property in February and were not totally sold on it, but we warmed up to it.
We made an offer, $800k. The owners countered $950k, no contingencies; close in 30 days, all cash. The agent, Kathryn Lilly* at Prudential Douglas Ellerman, http://www.prudentialelliman.com/mainsite/agents/agents.aspx?BID=KAL told us they had another offer of $950k, so we had to meet that number, as the owners "really wanted to sell to us over the other buyers”.
Still not convinced the house was worth the price, we decided to get an inspection. Everything seemed ok, so with a few more rounds of inspections, we finally agreed to $950k.
Due to the owners request to have a no contingency contract we ended up getting a general inspection, a structural inspection, a historical conservator evaluation of the exterior, a formal site survey and a title report (basically everything normally done AFTER a contract is signed) to assure ourselves we could sign with NO contingencies.
We agreed that the building, while it had flaws was ok to buy and was right for us, yeah!
We reviewed their contract with our lawyer and her comment to us was that it was written as though this was a "foreclosed" property. After consulting with the seller’s attorney, he agreed to strike or change certain parts of the contract; this was the end of April.
All said and done, we agreed, signed their P&S, put a deposit in escrow, signed with an agent to sell our houses and started packing. Two days later we got a call from our lawyer saying that they NOW have a higher offer and would like to know RIGHT NOW how high we are willing to go. Well, given what we knew about the property and the sellers…we decided to stick to our $950k…and just like that we lost the house.
We called Kathryn and the first words out of her mouth over were, snidely, “sorry you lost the house – the sellers signed with somebody else…too bad ” so much for HER representing BOTH parties in this real estate transaction.
We were/are devastated – we spent almost everyday since February 9th working out the details of moving into that house, only to have the rug pulled out from under us, without any opportunity to find out what happened – it is reported that "we were exceeding difficult to deal with".
Our lawyer put it this way simply: The contract did not provide us with a clear and marketable title and she couldn't let us close without that at any price and have a good conscience about it.
Here's what we do know, and can only hope that the new buyers do as well:
>>There is no way that the house is 3900 sq ft…unless it includes the basement and that is even a stretch.
>>The rear wood deck is built to the property line, which is typically not legal in NY.
>>The deck support posts were not properly isolated from the ground/dirt.
>>The kitchen extension roof overhangs the neighbor’s property 16", which is a potential liability down the road.
>>All of the eves NEED to be re-painted within a year (there is already rot showing)
>>Even though it was re-pointed “recently”, key spots were missed
>>Painting and Pointing this structure is going to cost a fortune…just for the scaffolding.
>>There is some concern of spalling and cracking of lintels and brownstone sections.
>>Gutters are not pitched properly and fill with water
Windows:
__“NEW” wood windows are missing paint on the EXTERIOR and were never properly prepared and painted on the inside.
__Original wood windows need IMMEDIATE attention as the exterior wood is exposed
__Many windows do not close properly (Actually almost all the non-original windows need replacement)
__Most of the “stained” glass windows have paint all over them and need restoration.
>>The Paint job inside and out is just AWFUL, with paint on most windows & tile work
__2nd floor transom windows were painted shut (WHY?)
__The entire exterior is covered in paint splatter
__Interior doors were painted without scraping/prepping
__Seems the house was painted quickly and not supervised after the owners moved out
>>The roof has broken tiles
>>There is/was water in the basement
>>The basement walls are fully enclosed trapping moisture/staying wet, watch for mold.
>>The basement heat pump does not work
>>The radiators are potentially undersized for the house
>>There is no visible sewer vent at the street connection
>>The roof top plumbing vents are less than 6 feet from windows (one is under an eve & 12" from a bedroom window)
>>The back yard is a swamp after the rain as it does not drain properly
>>Moldings were not mitered properly, if at all
>>The front gate does not open in cold weather (the bricks rise up, probably due to bad drainage)
>>Building is not insulated or in any way energy efficient
>>EVERY SUNDAY the church services next door PERMIATE the building - there is NO escape! (We had already decided to have Gospel Bruch on Sundays)
AND
>>The title was not clear!
This list does not even cover the BAD design decisions of the palatial master bath suite, which looks great in the photos, but the reality is, if someone is on the toilet, you literally can’t get in/out of the shower, not to mention, that you’re basically “on display” (in a small house/bath, ok, but for a million?) And just putting nice appliances in the kitchen does not make it an enjoyable space.
All we can think is that perhaps a developer bought the property and doesn't care about any of these issues because they will take it down...we certainly hope this is not the case.
What doesn't make sense to us is that the Kathryn Lilly told us that they wanted to sell it to us, I assume because they thought we’d do right for the house, but the effort that we put into doing right for the house made us too difficult to deal with?!?!?!?
Anyway, we have decided that it’s probably best not to hear ALLELUIA! Every Sunday for the next 10 years!
You can see MANY detailed photos here from our five visits to the house:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38879481@N03/
(we have even more images, but flicker limits free accounts to 200...)
We hope that the new owners find love in the house….As from our perspective, it seems to be cursed….
S and B
*As far as we are concerned, Kathryn Lilly is the epitome of the slimy agent. She actually yelled at us one afternoon, saying that we were not trying hard enough to buy the house, despite the fact that we were waiting for information from the sellers at that point! Not to mention unprofessional emails and comments…AVOID HER!
PPS> The house is no longer going to be landmarked, so if the Crown Heights North Association is concerned, they might want to watch this property closely, it is in contract, and we’re not sure who is buying it…..
Comments
Update:
Its probably all for the best, we're currently looking at starting an organic farm in CT - at half the price and Twice the relaxation!
S and B
Posted by: whyrl at June 11, 2009 5:23 PM
Strange post!
You were devastated you didn't get the house but have gone on to list at least twenty things that are seemingly unacceptable to you.
I'm not sure you're cut out for house buying in the city-it can be stressful but you have to get the bigger picture. Half the people on this site have been through this or worse but don't seem to need to mention every detail on the forum. (thankfully...)
I do wish you the best of luck in CT-i"m sure its for the best.
Posted by: jib at June 11, 2009 5:38 PM
Wow. I went and saw that house and was totally enchanted (and I already own a house!) Sorry you missed out on it. Most of those structural issues could be dealt with fairly easily, I'd think, but the title issues sound sketchy. ANd I was pretty sure the 3900 sf claim was bull. Kind of amazing they were willing to go so low from ask, but a no-contingency contract is a massive red flag, especially in this market. You may well have dodged a bullet. I hope whoever is taking the house can love it and give it the care it needs. Good luck in CT.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at June 11, 2009 6:34 PM
Sorry about that WYRL - I would just say: She doesn't represent "Both parties" she represents the seller and it's her job to get them the highest price, however - if what you say is true, certain things should have been handled in a more "professional" manner and you should speak to her office manager, forward those emails to him/her as well. You just have to be philosophical and say that things happen for a reason. Based on where the house is, it looks like it's over-priced, especially if it's a one family, so it's probably a good thing you didn't get it. Good Luck.
Posted by: Crownlfc at June 11, 2009 6:53 PM
Way too much money for that block.
Posted by: mod squad at June 11, 2009 7:52 PM
When I called at the first of the year, the broker told me that she had already gotten offers "in excess of $1,000,000".
I'm sure it has problems, but it's a nice house. However, I agree that it's too much money for that block.
Posted by: slick at June 11, 2009 7:58 PM
"When I called at the first of the year, the broker told me that she had already gotten offers "in excess of $1,000,000"."
LOL. When has a broker NOT said such BS? Sorry, not in excess of a M on that block on this year. A lie, plain and simple. With a no-contingency contract and the title issue? Sorry, lies, lies, lies.
Posted by: jland at June 11, 2009 9:32 PM
Also, it's not as if this place doesn't have some "history" : )
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/08/house_of_the_da_553.php
If they had offers in excess of $1,000,000 then why didn't they take them? Forget about the neighborhood, when you put down a mil you expect the them to have their ducks lined up in a row.
Posted by: jland at June 11, 2009 9:52 PM
you are so lucky, that you get rid of the house. BTW, you always can print out your post and stick into the mail box to the new owner. :)
Posted by: bobjohn at June 11, 2009 9:56 PM
People need to understand that the listing agent WORKS FOR THE SELLER and the seller only. Many of them misrepresent & lie. Seems this one may have.
If your lawyer told you that there were title problems that were insurmountable then you walk away. It's unclear. What did your lawyer advise when the broker said they were accepting a higher offr after you both (?) signed the P&S? I assume that the seller did not sign the P&S and therefore you still didn't actually have a deal yet.
I assume you got your escrow money back.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 12, 2009 7:52 AM
Seems Kathryn Lilly is no longer with the firm.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at June 12, 2009 8:55 AM
This type of treatment by the sellers' broker is exactly why the Brooklyn model of real estate (almost all sellers' brokers, almost no buyers' brokers) is messed up.
What were the title issues exactly? And why were you willing to sign the P&S with those title issues outstanding (or were they resolved by the final draft of the contract)?
Posted by: Boerumresident at June 12, 2009 11:03 AM
No contract is binding until it is signed by both parties. The owner got a higher offer before they were locked in, so they went for it. Anyone else would do the same. Your need to draw everyone's attention to all the negatives of the house appears to be sour grapes.
Posted by: dt at June 12, 2009 11:32 AM
official records say 3900sq st....so can't expect seller/realtor to claim different.
And records also show did close for $960k.
When trying to buy-- did you find out what FAR of the lot is? Maybe lot was more valuable than the house.
Posted by: Petebklyn at June 12, 2009 12:12 PM
I'm sorry that this happened to you. Not sure why you did but I'm glad that you did.
Posted by: the chicken at June 12, 2009 12:13 PM
If it only closed for 10k more than you had agreed to and the seller jumped ship and went to all that trouble rather than just calling you back and telling you to match it, I'm inclined to think they didn't think it would only be negotiated down to 960k, that they thought they'd end up with much more. I would think they'd want the bird in hand, since it's been on the market for years and through several brokers. Starting the whole process over for that little?
They could very well have sensed that you were hedging, since there's so much about the building you had issues with. Looks like it's best for everyone. Good luck with the farm or whatever your next step is : ) Sounds like that's what Lilly should be moving to!
Posted by: jland at June 12, 2009 12:23 PM
totally agree with dt - sour grapes is right.
Posted by: pmmtenement at June 12, 2009 1:00 PM
We could go on for ages about this.
There are more layers of detail than we care to recall.
JIB:
I offered all of this information because I know that so many people were interested in the house. And prospective buyers should read posts like this so they know about all stuff involved.
As for our "not being right for brooklyn" we already own two brownstones, (only 1200 feet from 1094) and we understand completely what we were getting into. I have been in Brooklyn for 15+ years now.
As for the P&S. When they made the counter offer with no contingencies, our lawyer clarified with their lawyer that the title would be clear. But then they came back to us that they wanted us to raise our offer and they were not going to clear the title.
As for Katherine not representing the buyers, we know that.
BUT it seems odd that if she wants to get the highest sale price for her SELLERS, then we should have been told, make an offer higher than X. We were not given that opportunity.
JUST raise the offer - and no clear title?
We had also done EXTENSIVE research about the owners and it just seemed like there was no POSITIVE information out there about them, so when the title "wouldn't be cleared", we didn't really want to take the risk. One indication was that one of the sellers was a real estate attorney who was "dis-barred" (left voluntarily) due to getting caught in something. (note- never met them, only gleaned from internet documents)
We also know that most of the issues were solve-able. BUT at what price?
It is a beautiful house and in hindsight - its been a good thing.
We also don't understand who would have signed a no-contingency contract for a building at close to a million in that neighborhood.
dt: It might be a little bit of sour grapes. We worked for 12 weeks to feel confident in a no contingency sale. We worked hard to know how much work would need to be done to respect the property. We researched, studied and ultimately lost because the Agent was a *%&@!. We also demonstrated that we had the best intentions for the house. Isn't that what you would want if you had a semi-historic property?
And wouldn't you have asked us to meet/beat the price?
Which based on the fact that my mom had just sold her house and would have helped us.
Anyway - enough said - enjoy the photos!
Posted by: whyrl at June 12, 2009 2:36 PM
Guys, thanks for the story and the heads up. CHNA will keep an eye on the house. I'm sure the disappointment level is quite high, but in the long run, it sounds as if you missed a lot of headache and heartache, too. I know, if you choose to, you'll find something else in the neighborhood, I applaud you for all your work in the neighborhood, as well. We'll see you around.
BTW - wanna put your current place on the house tour this year? Email me at montrosemorris at yahoo, either way. Thanks.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 12, 2009 3:52 PM
With a few gallons of paint and a big neon sign you missed out on owning your very own Taco Bell. . .
Posted by: IronBalls at June 12, 2009 7:36 PM
I'm possible that they didnt get offers of $1,000,000. it just goes to show how randomly idiotic brokers are. the sad thing is that she made $27.5k (approximately) on the deal.
Don't worry. there are plenty of other houses out there.
Posted by: slick at June 13, 2009 2:13 AM
It's not remotely possible that there was a single, legit offer of over $1,000,000, because then it would never have been negotiated DOWN to 960 : ) That's all the proof you need that whoever made that claim (Kathryn Lilly?) has no ethical compass.
I'm guessing they knew the OP was unlikely to go the distance blindly given their trepidations and they found someone who just wanted in, wacky contract be damned.
Posted by: jland at June 13, 2009 10:50 AM
What an extraordinary house. Thank you for posting the photos of the interior. I'm so sorry you lost it. However, not to justify what happened, but these kinds of risks are fairly routine.
I do believe this house was designed by one of the foremost architects living in Crown Heights and was his own personal residence. I am pretty sure it was on the BCUE Crown Heights historic architecture tour that I took last year.
As for all the things wrong with the house, only the moisture issues sound serious. In fact, with a house this old, I would expect far worse.
I have been in a similar situation: Unique house, repair issues, and strange foreclosure-type contract.
In fact, how is it possible to close in 30 days? Isn't that something the bank controls?
Posted by: mopar at June 13, 2009 11:45 AM
Oh, right, it was an all cash deal, so no bank to hold things up, hence the 30-day closing. I think that's pretty routine, no? Not that I have any personal experience with all-cash closings, ha!
Posted by: mopar at June 13, 2009 11:47 AM
S and B,
I'm very sorry for all the nerves and stress you must have gone through on this! But from the sound of it, it is probably very much for the best that you escaped this fate.
Your plans for a farm in CT are wonderful and I'm sure you'll do well and enjoy yourselves much more than the headaches you might have faced with this white elephant of a house in Crown Heights...maybe KL did you a favor, a twist of fate and in a couple of years, her apparent betrayal will fit into the grand scheme of things as an "all for the best" reflection.
Might I direct you to read Eliot Coleman's "Four Season Harvest"?
Posted by: BrooklynGreene at June 15, 2009 12:08 PM
Who wouldn't have sour grapes after this?
The list of negatives were not things that were "seemingly unacceptable" to S and B -- they were negatives that they WERE willing to accept.
Unfair and condescending to say that this means S and B are possibly not "cut out for house buying in the city."
Posted by: Nomi at June 15, 2009 1:21 PM
I really feel for you guys and thinks it's nonsense for others to call your post sour grapes or suggest you aren't cut out to own in the city. Clearly you made a good faith effort to come to a deal. I dealt with Kathryn Lilly once 10 years ago -- never again! We walked away from a house in Fort Greene when she tried to manipulate us. I'm afraid she's just one of many Brooklyn RE brokers who make buyers feel like a criminals just because they are thorough and do due diligence. You dodged a bullet on this place.
Posted by: grand army at June 15, 2009 2:20 PM
So this is kind of out of the blue...but I just met the new owners and I can say that I feel they do not have any intention of taking the place down - which is good.
Apparently they tried to contact us to remove the photos of the property, which was done although not by us.
During the meeting I apologized for the lack of respect we may have shown to the new owners in our original post with the photos and any problems they might have had due to the attention they received from our comment about them taking the building down.
We had an interesting conversation that lasted over an hour and while we certainly have very different opinions, we agreed on one very important thing - that Kathryn Lilly is pretty much "scum".
I also learned that while it took us 12 weeks, they worked for 8 months to get the property, wading through the mountains of lies she told.
I hope they enjoy the property for years to come.
S
Posted by: whyrl at July 20, 2009 3:26 PM

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