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May 5, 2009
TILING OVER TILE??
we are changing the tile on our bathroom floor--it's in good shape, but we hate the color.
my tiler wants to lay the new tile over the existing tile, rather than tear up what is already there. does this make any sense? are there any dangers? thank you.
Comments
There is no danger just someone too lazy to remove the tile. An easier way to make money.
Posted by: Ysabelle at May 5, 2009 10:23 AM
that's not necessarily true. If the tile is in OK condition, just ugly, but still stable, then it's unnecessary work to remove it. It acts as a mud bed. The other thing to take into consideration is will the added height of the second layer of tile work OK with the doorway/transition to the next room, even if it's slight? Most of the time a good tiler will find a way to make it work. But I suggest really talking that through with your tiler and getting a sense of how they'd solve that problem and what your expectations are.
Posted by: herkimermaid at May 5, 2009 10:40 AM
If that's all you can afford to do...
I hate the "slap new stuff over old" mentality. You see drywall screwed over plaster, linoleum over wood floors over old linoleum...why not just do the job right...
Sorry for the rant. But if it were my bathroom, I'd save my money and remove the old tile.
Posted by: Bolder at May 5, 2009 11:41 AM
Taking it out is annoying and messy, but it is probably worth it, especially for a small sq. footage like a bathroom. We were wondering if we could do the same in our bathroom - tile over tile - but everyone who has looked at it has recommended to take it out and do a fresh layer. May as well, if you're going through the trouble already!
Posted by: meerkatz at May 5, 2009 12:58 PM
This is one instance in which "doing it right" doesn't necessarily mean ripping it out first. I had 2 bathroom floors retiled very successfully and saved a lot of money and stress on demo/reconstruction. You would never know the floors had been tiled over; they look great and are rock solid. The person who suggested removing it might be looking to make a buck... conversely the person who suggested leaving it (because you can and still do the job right) might be trying to save you some.
Posted by: herkimermaid at May 5, 2009 1:59 PM
Amen, Herkimermaid!
Whether or not it's a good idea to remove the tile depends on a lot of things. It's not the kind of thing you can level a snap judgment about.
Posted by: vanburenproud at May 5, 2009 5:32 PM
I work in construction...as does most of my family...and the consensus is..if the floor is stable...you can go right over it...just be sure to scuff up the tile with a coarse grit sandpaper...and NO mastic!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Melissa809 at May 5, 2009 7:29 PM
Be sure the fixtures will still fit in the space. If you have an old sink with fixed lines (no speedys) this is an issue.
Posted by: mopar at May 5, 2009 11:26 PM
It's fine to lay new tile on top of old SO LONG AS the existing tile is stable.
But there are major issues presented by this. Will this push your door saddle up so high that you'll trip over it and/or the door won't close? Will your toilet bolts still be long enough?
Posted by: Rehab at May 6, 2009 11:38 AM
no its not fine to lay new tile on top of old tile.
Posted by: scorpio_bite at May 6, 2009 12:15 PM
How many people who say it's not fine to tile over existing tile even know ANYTHING about the building trades?.....morons
Posted by: Melissa809 at May 6, 2009 5:45 PM
I've always taken the tile up. Here are my concerns about tiling over existing tile....
1. If the original tile isn't completely stable, it could cause cracking.
2. You lose height.
3. You're weighing down your joists. Imagine if you just kept doing this over the years.
But I guess I'm just a moron.
Posted by: rh at May 6, 2009 9:19 PM
ONLY tile over if it is stable...
What are you going to lose....1/2" in height?
You're only going over it once...maybe twice...believe me....floor joists can handle the MINUTELY extra weight ..
and yes...you ARE a moron...and most likely NOT a contractor...
Posted by: Melissa809 at May 6, 2009 10:01 PM
its moronic to put tile over tile because you are basically sticking it to the next guy. Down the road someone will have to rip out two or three layers of tile when they want to redo the bathroom. Its just irresponsible and typical of the "quick and dirty" mentality. When renovating properly its always best to go back to the bones and rebuild.
Only SLIME will tile over tile. ITs lazy and irresponsible causing more work for the next person. Someone in the building trades that just want to make a quick buck tell you its fine. Coz they can get in and out quicker.
Posted by: tomgee at May 7, 2009 10:43 AM
I agree with tomgee. I've had to rip out someone else's lazy work too many times.
And Melissa, what makes you such an unhappy person? Seriously, seek help. Just because you come from a family of contractors doesn't make them GOOD contractors. FYI, my husband is an anal structural engineer and I've learned everything I know from him.
Posted by: rh at May 7, 2009 11:31 AM
First off....my family and I are FINE craftsmen..FYI...who know a hell of a lot more about construction than some liberal yuppie DIY'ers....now sit back in your overpriced brownstone in a "soon to be good" neighborhood....don't go out too late at night....and don't forget to give that illegal Mexican you hired off the street an extra 10 bucks....morons
BTW.....worked with many an engineer who had NO clue...bet many "brownstoners" on here could attest to that
MORONS!!!
Posted by: Melissa809 at May 7, 2009 4:21 PM
Melissa809 sounds like the female version of The What
Posted by: tiptoe at May 7, 2009 4:27 PM
Thanks for the compliment!!!!
Posted by: Melissa809 at May 7, 2009 4:49 PM
I'm a fan of The What. At least he's entertaining.
Posted by: rh at May 8, 2009 9:48 AM
I don't see why this thread has gotten so irrational.
Melissa sounds reasonable to me. I am not a tile setter, but I am a skilled tradesperson and appreciate fine, honest work. And while I saw a lot of hack work in my own 'stone, I don't begrudge the layers of flooring. I would tile over tile if I was sure that the job was strictly cosmetic and could accommodate the new height.
It seems strange to rip out tile that's not presenting a problem only because you are thinking about the next job, which ideally is going to be in like twenty years. I don't plan much else that I do in terms of its eventual destruction. I didn't use easy-to-pry nails on my subfloor because I know how hard a subfloor can be to remove. I don't make my kitchen cabinets easy to remove for obvious reasons. Why the special "don't stick it to the next guy" rule with tile?
Posted by: vanburenproud at May 8, 2009 7:52 PM
It makes a lot more sense to rip out the old tile and know what you got underneath. Common sense is always a good starting point. Why look for trouble? Would you wear a sport coat over another sport coat? Maybe it is not a great
analogy, but the concept of tiling over tile is not a great concept either.
Posted by: naratamaa at May 9, 2009 10:50 AM
OMG, this is nothing like wearing a sportcoat over another sportcoat.
It's way too easy to pretend you know what you are talking about on this forum.
Posted by: vanburenproud at May 9, 2009 12:48 PM
THANK YOU vanburenproud.....
I just finished renovating my condo...the bathroom's original tile floor...in a mud bed...was tiled over..THAT tile I removed because it was improperly laid and coming up....cracking....etc...
When I got down to the original tile....it LOOKED terrible...but MAN it was SOLID..so my tilesetter...another skilled tradesman..tiled right over it...using, I believe, the kerdi membrane as well as thin-set...NOT tile adhesive...and it's been a year....my tumbled marble floor is ROCK solid...and GORGEOUS..
AND I am not even MISSING that 1/2" in ceiling height that I lost!!...HAHAHA...some of these brownstoners are...
MORONS!!!!
Posted by: Melissa809 at May 9, 2009 2:51 PM
I'm tiling over the old stuff... and here's why:
I pulled off the 20 year old tile and found the original hexagonal 1" (or smaller) tiles that were laid originally - the type that always accompany 'subway tiles' on the wall. The original tilers poured a bed of mortar about 4" thick between and rising above the top of the floor joists about 1 1/2". This thick bed of mortar only concerns me in terms of weight but it has lasted for 94 years and the floor joists still seem fine. I'm going to go the extra distance and sister some lamibeam to each of them underneath in the basement level - just because it will make me feel better.
If it were as easy as 'popping up' some old tiles - I might consider it. But these are so firmly locked into this thick bed of mortar that to remove them would require removing the entire bed. I'll trust the 'old world' artisans that evidently put this together, use their tile as my bed and reinforce for weight /longevity reasons.
Posted by: PulSamsara at September 8, 2009 12:48 PM
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