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May 6, 2009
Riddle Me This (Plumbing Questio
The Scenario: Brownstone owners embark on a reno of their duplex. Pay GC a whole bunch of money. Told by GC that roughing complete just before GC walks (because he is a no good con artist scumbag but more on that later). Homeowners trying to get reno back on track and bring in plumbers (and new GCs etc.) to check rough plumbing and bid out any completion work--it becomes apparent that plumbing roughing is NOT done and a good portion of what has been done has been done defectively (for the sake of this inquiry-please trust that we have thoroughly investigated these claims and they are correct). Plumbers estimates come in as MORE than original estimates for plumbing work (we had 6) although there is some plumbing that does not need to be redone and some plumbing that require justminor adjustments. PLEASE TELL ME HOW OR WHY such a thing can be? Is it that these plumbers are just total opportunist --see we are in a bad spot and just want to stick it to us? Are there any honest plumbers in brooklyn? Can anyone offer any help?
Comments
I assume you've made the proper complaints against them and filed a lawsuit. Telling you to make sure you get licensed plumbers with REFERENCES isn't going to help now anyway.
I can give you a reference for the plumbers & contractors I used who did most of the work in my 135+ unit condo in Manhattan. I had an excellent realtionship with the superintendent and he assured them that I'd be a good customer so it worked out very well. they were a bit reluctant to bother with work "so far away" in brooklyn but it worked out well. I got one other estimate from J. Costa in brooklyn and both came in about the same.
My plumbing "only" involved enlarging a bathroom and then putting in a second bathroom so one new main soil pipe (there was a 2" sink already plumbed in the second "bath") and then the additional plumbing for an enlarged master bath...$20k for all of it including the shower stall rough in and connection of all the fixtures. That number did not include any bathroom tile or finish work.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 6, 2009 9:57 AM
Sometimes it's more time-consuming and costly to repair/redo defective work than to do the work posed by the original conditions. Who knows what was done.
Can't figure out why you haven't called any of the original 6 bidders back to the job (or if any of them were licensed, insured, etc.). Also, from your post, seems like the work was done by the GC's sub, not by your own direct contract with a plumber. What to do now?—File claims against the GC who walked. Use licensed, insured contractors in future. Get written contracts before any work begins. Don't be suckered by low bids, and don't compare those sucker bids to the prices of legitimate vendors.
Posted by: vinca at May 6, 2009 12:09 PM
Yes, vinca, many years ago one of my contactors said "The worst jobs involve fixing someone else's handiwork."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 6, 2009 12:16 PM
Don't forget also that a new plumber now is inheriting the liability of the work previously done. Like it or not, that plumber has to "cover" the entire installation after he is finished fixing all of the mistakes. Any amount of friendly handshaking will not erase that responsibility.
Posted by: arch_tect at May 6, 2009 12:56 PM
Aladdin Plumbing is the best. They are honest, professional, at the top of their game -- and nice. I can't say enough good things about them. 718.783.4621.
Posted by: herkimermaid at May 6, 2009 12:57 PM
I did use a licensed GC with licensed subs--and checked out their numbers with the DOB--lots of good that did me. Yes, I am suing the heck out of the GC, going after his license and trying to get the DA involved with the fraud he committed (fake permits etc.) And yes, i did have a contract and he did have insurance. I can't go after the plumber directly because he is a sub. To get around that this time--i am hiring directly. The original 6 bidders were GCs who included plumbing for a quote between 10 and 15k. The plumbers coming in now are quoteing 13-15k to finish the work. I hear what you are saying about taking on the liability of another but i still don't think that justifies another 15k. I appreciate all of your advice and recs--please keep it coming.
Posted by: HomeSweetstuy at May 6, 2009 3:27 PM
Martin Pluming and heating is honest and reasonably priced (though all plumbing is insanely expensive.)
Posted by: Park Place at May 6, 2009 3:32 PM
I recommend Sessa Plumbing. They've been helping me with a permit sign-off and some shoddy work done by previous plumbers. They are a real professional outfit.
Posted by: Turtlejam19 at May 6, 2009 4:11 PM
The price issue may be due to the fact that the first set of "Plumbers" weren't licensed or insured. Their pricing was probably very low for the work that was quoted. If they quoted 10K - 15K for the initial work, it probably should have been more like 20K - 25K (without knowing the entire scope of work I can't be exact). The Plumbers that are taking over the job are pricing for what the Plumbing should legitimately cost at this point. I'm sure it's at a small premium because they are working with Plumbing that someone else started. Also keep in mind that the GC gave you a 10K - 15K ballpark price for the Plumbing. That could have been a number that he just threw out there to you, otherwise he would have given you an exact number. What happened to you sucks, it's something that I hear about almost every week. I wish you luck in finishing your project, this is supposed to be an enjoyable thing that you're doing!!
Posted by: Brooklyn Plumber at May 6, 2009 5:27 PM
I am starting to change my tune about plumbers.
Yes, it's not rocket science, but what you are paying for -- as has been alluded to in this thread -- is their assumption of liability. Simply put, there is a lot that can go wrong with water or gas lines, and when it does go wrong, it's likely to involve other people's property or health. We learned that the hard way during a renovation a year ago.
So my advice, after years of grousing about plumbers' charges, is to find a plumber you like and trust, and try not to dwell on the price.
Posted by: Bolder at May 6, 2009 11:00 PM
Another vote for Martin Plumbing and Heating. They are very professional, very honest and very reliable. They stand by their work and take pride in it. The even taught me a bunch of things about plumbing that I could do myself and save money. They have been around a while and are pretty much exclusive to Brooklyn work.
Posted by: tomgee at May 7, 2009 10:30 AM
stuy, in case you didn't know, Martin also did the plumbing at 270. And I'd have to say the plumbing was one of the least bad parts of the job :-)
Posted by: denton at May 7, 2009 4:48 PM
ha ha denton. Thanks everyone-I am going to check these guys out
Posted by: HomeSweetstuy at May 8, 2009 9:45 AM
If you're still checking your thread (I don't get to check the forum everyday) I have a couple of suggestions.
You can try Rocky at PlumbingWorx. They are on Degraw ST by Van Brunt. He may take pity on you, he can be very helpful.
In all these cases you have to go to these guy's offices. I know about letting your fingers do the walking, but you need to show up at their office. On the phone you are a potential head ache. In person you stand a chance of a hand shake and a partner. Go easy on the fiasco, you basically want a bunch of plumbing work done, which in this economy is a good thing for these guys (dem guys).
Bruce, Jersey Management
Posted by: brucef at May 10, 2009 12:34 AM
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