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« 53 so elliott place Getting Rid of Stuff »
May 26, 2009
pavement removal along sidewalk
We're looking into removing the pavement in front of our bldg so that we can plant a garden. Anyone ever done this? Did you get a permit? It's our own property, but it runs adjacent to the sidewalk. Who do I speak to? The DOB? The DOT? I can't find any specific language in the building code for this particular situation. Thanks for any leads!
Comments
It's hard for me to be sure from your post, but I think you are describing what's known as an areaway. The work you're describing certainly does *not* fall into the category of "Ordinary Maintenance." Therefore, if you are in a historic district, you will need to obtain approval from the Landmarks Preservation Commission, and they will specify how and with what material you can rebuild (i.e., to return the areaway to it's historic design). If this is the case, use a good contractor/expediter to achieve the results you're seeking. See page 32: http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/pubs/workguide.pdf
Posted by: vinca at May 22, 2009 3:22 PM
Thanks! Yes, it must be an areaway. We're not in a historic district, but just having the right term is a big help.
Posted by: sammsf at May 22, 2009 3:29 PM
BTW, do not assume that if an LPC permit is not required *for you*, that a DOB permit would also not be required. There are owner's evenings every Tuesday at borough DOB office. Ask your question there. Here's a link to the LPC's glossary: http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/glossary/glossary.shtml
Posted by: vinca at May 22, 2009 3:43 PM
Also good to know about. Thanks!
Posted by: sammsf at May 22, 2009 3:51 PM
Isn't the OP just talking about the front yard? I've never heard a permit is required to re-do the cement in the front yard (or remove it). Of course, I'm no expert.
Posted by: mopar at May 23, 2009 5:27 PM
Mopar, in the words of A.E. Houseman: "Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time."
Posted by: vinca at May 25, 2009 10:17 AM
is it a fenced in area? If so then don't bother with permit. Or is sidewalk that public walks on now?
and anyway - not a DOB matter. Could make case for transportation dept...but not DOB.
Posted by: Petebklyn at May 26, 2009 9:55 AM
Where is your property line? Better pull out your title survey and make sure that what you think is your property actually is. The City doesn't like home owners removing pavement from areas that are public property.
Posted by: sam at May 26, 2009 11:21 AM
See the Yards Text Amendment, approved by the City Council on April 30, 2009. Pre-approval summary and link to final adopted text is available at: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/yards/index.shtml
See also: Zoning text of the City of New York, text current through April 2, 2009. In particular, see Article II, Chapter 3, Section 23-40, which starts on page 36: http://nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/zone/art02c03.pdf
Posted by: vinca at May 26, 2009 11:50 AM
Vinca -
Unfortunately the yards text amendment applies to New Construction not alterations.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at May 26, 2009 12:21 PM
Piggybacking on the question - is a path from the street to the front door required in a front yard? If so what are the minimum dimensions? I looked at Zoning and can't find any minmium paving requirements.
Posted by: michellefk at May 26, 2009 12:53 PM
Thanks SenatorSt, understood. But since discussion is revolving around areaways and yards, just wanted to add links relative to thread, to zoning, and to future initiatives under PlaNYC.
Posted by: vinca at May 26, 2009 1:09 PM
This is an existing property so all that matters is where the legal property line is. If the owners find that the areaway, or what was once an areaway, is still within their private property line then I advise them to put up an ironwork railing ASAP. Re-claim it as private. If you have the proof that its your property, I would not go to the DOT, I would just do it.
If it is no longer part of the property (many blocks had the property lines pushed back to the facade by the city in anticipation of street wideneing) then you will need to apply to DOT for any work.
Posted by: sam at May 26, 2009 1:43 PM
I have a related question. The owner before me planted a tree in a small garden plot in our "areaway". I don't think he realized how big the tree would get. It is 2-3 stories high. The tree is breaking up the concrete in the areaway and the sidewalk. We want to keep the tree and to keep the sidewalk safe (and avoid fines). So we are also trying to figure out if we can claim some of the sidewalk to give the tree a bigger pit. Right now, it is all behind a fence. We did get a notice from the city that we should try to keep the tree (part of PlaNYC, I think) and fix the sidewalk. Any leads on a contractor who would do this? The one time I had a tree guy look at it, his only advice was to get rid of the tree. OP: don't plant a tree!
Posted by: bkyn05 at May 26, 2009 2:08 PM
We did this in our front yard without a permit and had no problems. Of course that doesn't mean what we did was technically correct. As a practical matter, the jackhammering took less than an hour and our neighbors seem to view the planted area as a vast improvement over the former concrete paving, so I don't know how it would have become a problem unless a DOB inspector happened to drive by while the work was being done. But your neighbors might be different.
Posted by: supersleuth at May 26, 2009 2:22 PM
Bkyn05: The link below will answer some of your questions and also has contact information. We have a flowering tree in our areaway which we'd never give up; it was selected knowing that it's mature size would be appropriate to its location: http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_permits_and_applications/images_and_pdfs/TREE_WORK_PERMIT_application.pdf
You'll also find useful links/information here: http://www.bbg.org/exp/bigtrees/info/
Posted by: vinca at May 26, 2009 2:33 PM
Thanks everyone. All helpful info. This area is inside our property line according to the most recent survey. It's not fenced in yet, but we're putting up a fence at our property line as well. Anyway, thanks for weighing in.
Posted by: sammsf at May 26, 2009 4:01 PM
vinca: thank you!
Posted by: bkyn05 at May 26, 2009 4:42 PM
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