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May 5, 2009
Maintaining a Victorian home
We have been looking for a house in Victorian Flatbush for some time but recently realized we know very little about costs of maintaining one. We are only looking at homes with updated electrical and plumbing. Given that, what sorts of issues are likely to arise? If the house has wood or asphalt siding, does that drive up costs? Is paying for lawn maintenance expensive? Any assistance is most welcome, thanks.
Comments
Check yesterday's HOTD. Nice Victorian in Flatbush with lots of comments. With a large frame house, painting every 10-15 years is going to be expensive. Roof obviously will be more expensive than a flat roof on a brownstone but if new should last 40+ years if done properly with the best materials. Yesterday's HOTD seemed unique with central air. I suspect all of its mechanicals were new.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 5, 2009 9:11 AM
Dave, thanks. I saw that thread and indeed it was useful. I guess I am wondering whether we should be prepared to have a certain sum of money put aside every year for what Brenda from Flatbush called "the firehose" -- $10K? $20K?
Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at May 5, 2009 9:52 AM
They're more expensive to heat so if the house has updated insulation and new windows it helps a lot with heating (and cooling) bills and is better for the environment of course not to use as much fuel/electricity. So find a newly insulated house with new windows or budget it in to do yourself.
Posted by: traditionalmod at May 5, 2009 11:08 AM
Some things like new roof, electric, windows, etc., just need to be done once and then should last for decades. Ditto kitchen or bathroom renovations, but those are totally optional - you won't hurt the house by keeping the old kitchen, but you will hurt it if you neglect the roof or exterior paint.
A good paint job will last 10-15 years, and doesn't cost all that much unless it's been neglected for a long time and as a result you need to replace or repair siding. Of course if you do need to replace siding, that gives you the opportunity to put in some rigid insulation and help with heating bills.
We do our own gardening so I have no idea what those landscaping companies charge. But remember these lots aren't that big - most are 40x100 or 50x100, so it's not like the suburbs where half-acre or one-acre lots are the norm. So how much could it really be?
Posted by: Sparafucile at May 5, 2009 11:15 AM
Depends on the house. If you moved into HOTD that seems to have updated electrical, roof, etc, you're looking repainting every 10 yrs or so, could cost a pretty penny. If things have been more neglected, you may need to replace major items -- boiler, water heater, roof. But as above, once that's done, it's done. There always seems to be something that comes up in these older homes. We did a major renovation in our home, and wanted to use the backyard this summer only to realize that we needed to replace a rotted out fence around the perimeter. Lawn upkeep may be the least of it-- we have someone who comes in every 2-3 weeks for $60 per, upkeeps the lawn in the backyard, cleans up around the side and planted our front garden which came in quite nicely this year.
Posted by: mh at May 5, 2009 11:28 AM
Also, a good inspector should be able to give some idea of the costs of general yearly upkeep for that particular home(ie cleaning the gutters, chimney sweep, etc, etc).
Posted by: mh at May 5, 2009 11:30 AM
Chimney sweep? What are you, in a Dickens novel?
Many neighbors use landscaping services, but I like getting out the push mower for our little bit of grass. Lawn maintenance is probably the least of your concerns
I haven't spent anything close to 10-20K a year. Moved in to a house in pretty good shape & spent about 15K adding a door and a deck and some other miscellaneous things. A few hundred bucks to blow in some insulation. About 8K painting the exterior a few years back. 12K for a new roof and gutters. Kitchen appliances and bathroom fixtures replaced over the years. I'd guestimate 50K over 7 years. I'm sure there's a huge range of people spending less and much more.
Posted by: Bklnite at May 5, 2009 1:16 PM
If you burn wood in your fireplace you need to understand the necessity of a chimney cleaning.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 5, 2009 2:37 PM
It costs about the same as a brownstone to replace electrical, boiler, plumbing, etc... Roof will cost more than a Brownstone and heating slightly more than any attached home. Once those things are done they won't have to be redone for decades. If you buy a house like yesterdays HOTD - and there are a few of them available that have been updated, you won't have to worry about anything but yearly maintenance like cleaning the gutters, the chimneys, boiler service, etc..
I pay my landscaper $45 a month to cut the grass, edge the beds and incorporate compost. If I buy plants he will put them in for me but I basically do the rest of my gardening. Shoveling snow is a royal pain in the butt so I sometimes pay the guys who walk down the street offering to it for a small fee.
You will save money on storage fees, hotels for overnight guests, parking, entertainment, etc... and really get to enjoy your surroundings. I've always been partial to the space that the suburbs offered but I am happy to have found that space right here in Brooklyn.
Bklnite's prices seem to be about what I spent for similar projects except my roof was 25K. It was a complete tear-off and re-do. If you plan on redoing the siding using the cedar clapboards and/or shingles that will be costly but you won't have to do it again and the price is comparable to refacing a brownstone if not cheaper. Of course depending on the other areas that you are considering, the intial purchase prices out here are lower which of course lowers expenses from the onset.
No matter where you end up buying it would be a good idea to incorporate money for maintenance into your budget.
Posted by: Chosen at May 5, 2009 4:59 PM
Generally speaking, i think the discussions re: higher costs of maintaining victorians relates to a few things:
1. Because they are detached homes, heating and A/C costs are much higher.
2. There is a large exterior surface which required very regular maintenance (especially compared with brownstone).
3. victorians tend to be larger homes in general so costs per square foot may be the same for some things, but total costs are higher.
Posted by: slick at May 6, 2009 4:04 AM
Thanks so much, everyone, for all these detailed and helpful responses. They are much appreciated!
Posted by: gidgetgoesbrooklyn at May 6, 2009 9:14 AM
I thought Bklnite's costs sounded about right. I think it also matters that the Vics are cheaper to buy, so the all-in cost is still far less. You might not get as much of it back when you sell, but since I plan to be taken out of mine on a slab, I don't care!
We do our own lawn with a push-mower, and our own landscaping. We also procrastinate a lot on various upgrades and repairs, which is a time-proven short-term-cost-saving technique!
Posted by: Back40 at May 6, 2009 10:49 AM
Yes, procrastination & deferred maintenance is the way to save $
Re: slick's comment - "heating and A/C costs are much higher"...
Coming from a small attached PS house to a larger freestanding house, my heating costs are higher (maybe 3k/yr vs. 2k/year) and we're little less cozy with the thermostat programed for 68. Some of the difference may be inflation of gas prices.
As far as AC, if you have enough trees around the house (many in the neighborhood do) and take advantage of the shade and ventilation you can be comfortable enough for all but a handful of summer heatwave days without using AC. We haven't pulled our window units out of the closet in a couple of years.
Good luck gidget if you end up going to Victorian Flatubush.
Posted by: Bklnite at May 6, 2009 11:28 AM
Bklnite is right about having mature trees around a house and how much it helps with cooling the house in Summer. The difference is several degrees. In CA my neighbors were way over-paranoid about tree roots and sadly tore out the tall trees around their house whereas I left mine in place. They BAKED in that house in Summer! Which gave me some pleasure I admit :)
Posted by: traditionalmod at May 7, 2009 10:37 AM
May I be so nosy as to ask why you would want to buy in Victorian Flatbush instead of a close-in suburb like Pelham?
We strongly considered moving to Ditmas back on 2007 but the public schools just don't cut it. If you have school-aged kids, do yourself the favor of looking up in Pelham. We moved there last year after more than a decade in Brooklyn and despite all of my fears about suburban living the only downside has been crappy restaurants. The schools, the houses, the neighbors are incredible. We are walking distance from the train, which takes 27 minutes to get into GCT. Closer than Ditmas!
Anyway, we bought an old victorian house. One thing to consider, besides maintenance, is the cost to heat the damn place. See if you can find out about any insulation work that has been done to the house, and place a premium on houses that have been recently insulated. I wish I had asked that question. Once last winter rolled around, we realized we basically were walking around in ski hats because the house was so cold. This is after paying $1000 per month for electicity and gas. We will be spending around $10K to insulate this summer, but it'll pay back within a few years.
Posted by: bklyndoug at May 7, 2009 2:23 PM
Bklyndoug,
I agree 100%, as we moved from B'lyn to Westchester. We also paid around $1K per month for elec/gas during the winter. We just locked in though for gas and elec rates for the coming year. You might want to look into that.
As for restaurants though, we have found a number of really good ones: FISH, Easterchester Fish Co., Sammy's Downtown Bistro, etc....
Posted by: Splenda at May 7, 2009 4:29 PM
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