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May 4, 2009
Retaliation for DEP Complaint
On Tuesday I complained to the DEP about an A/C compressor which has recently been installed on the top of the 1st floor extension of a new restaurant on Smith Street. The noise of this unit is well in excess of the code (43decibles). DEP requires you leave your name, address, etc., to file the complaint. Sometime last night, someone dumped the contents of a 1 gallon pain can in my front yard and on my stoop. No proof, but pretty sure it's related to the complaint. I called the precinct and they told me to call 911....(but I digress). Has anyone had experience with this sort of situation...obviously I'm dealing with a nut job, but I don't see why I don't have the right to expect commercial buildings to live up to the building code.
Comments
"pain can"... meant to say "paint can", but the subconscious implications are obvious.
Posted by: wyckoff at May 3, 2009 4:08 PM
This is why you should approach your neighbors in a calm rational manner as a first step rather than filing complaints which should be your final recourse.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at May 3, 2009 4:31 PM
if the harassment continues in that form, an exterior-grade close circuit security camera kit only costs about fifty bucks these days.
Posted by: Smokychimp at May 3, 2009 4:34 PM
and 2 gallons of paint in the offending compressor is even cheaper :-)
Posted by: denton at May 3, 2009 7:34 PM
Hey Fire Alarm Guy - If the owner of the building is a nameless LLC, how do you suggest one contacts them? Why do you assume calling 311 is not calm and rational?
Posted by: wyckoff at May 3, 2009 8:45 PM
restaurant owners are notorious assholes...keep calling in complaints since they constantly try to do things on the cheap
Posted by: eman1234 at May 3, 2009 9:28 PM
Telling him to approach the restaurant directly as if that would help one iota? Of course one calls 311 in this situation.
Posted by: traditionalmod at May 4, 2009 9:55 AM
Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy- you're implying that he deserved this? By filing a complaint? I'm all for going to your neighbors first with a problem- but this is a business- that paid (or should have) a knowledgeable contractor that should have known the noise of the unit could be/might be an issue. Just like the contractor should know about whether a roof can support the weight of the unit or if the electrical can handle the increased load- etc.
Wyckoff- but a webcam (less than $100) that's activated by motion- have it installed in a not so obvious spot outside- have it record for a few months. Just delete the files when nothing happens (to save storage) but if something does- archive it.
Posted by: panda10 at May 4, 2009 9:58 AM
I would think the restaurant owner would have to have a big 'in' to find out who filed a complaint. And unless found in violation this would seem strong retaliation.
DEP needs name and address because they come over and measure sound from inside your place with window open.
I've been thru this. I never had any sense that restaurant ever knew who complained.
(also may help if you get other neighbors to call and make complaints also).
NYC will also come clean off graffiti if you make complaint and ask for the service...not sure if this falls into that category.
Posted by: Petebklyn at May 4, 2009 10:04 AM
I'm not saying anyone deserves to have their home vandalized. That's ridiculous. I'm just saying that this is a restaurant with an owner, not some faceless mega corporation. The owner trying to make a living in troubling economic times may be completely unaware of your frustration and is blindsided by a hefty fine that you initiated on top of the repair bill. If you had contacted them directly the situation might have been resolved amicably. If the owner was unreachable or uncooperative then I could see escalating the situation to a complaint. But to not try and work with your neighbor strikes me as lazy or worse cowardly.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at May 4, 2009 10:30 AM
Sorry to hear about the criminal mischief. Seeing that you don't know for sure that it was the new restaurant who masterminded the crime, your plans for retaliation may be misplaced. Did they do anything about the compressor after your complaint? That's the question. What was your experience like with the DEP?
Anyone actually have one of these camera set ups that digitally record for days on to a disk? Anyone recommend a link or a store? Specific brand that they are happy with that won't break the bank?
Posted by: IMBY at May 4, 2009 10:34 AM
You were pretty unsociable in not confronting the owner directly.
The city has made it virtually impossible to comply with every law, and the fines are extremely high.
You can either make peace with your neighbor or figure out how to defend your multi-million dollar unguarded property.
Be thankful that he didn't mix roofing tar in with the paint.
Posted by: thwackamole1 at May 4, 2009 10:45 AM
Had exactly the same problem with Petite Crevette when they were on Atlantic Ave. Owner installed massive vent fan that made my apartment buzz. Went over to speak to him politely and he blew up at me. Yelling screaming, tried to physically throw me out - I'm 6', he was 5 and change so it didn't go quite as he hoped. I left and called DEP. Based on their measure was 1 decibel under ticketing amount.
Thankfully they closed shortly after. For some reason maybe he wasn't getting as much neighborhood business as he hoped ;-)
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Believe they moved.
Posted by: Johnny at May 4, 2009 10:47 AM
@Petebklyn: I once received a visit from DEP about my motorbike (sadly, since sold) making too much noise and pollution. There was a complaint about me revving it in the driveway, working on it at odd hours. None of this was true, but there was (and still is) a crazy woman on the block who had fights with EVERYONE. The inspector visiting told me that it was her, I think in part because they'd received other complaints from her in the past. The complaint went away because she fabricated the wrong date about which to complain: I was in London on business that week! POINT IS--> I didn't know the inspector yet he freely shared the identity of the complainant with me. Not always confidential.
Posted by: r1b2 at May 4, 2009 10:59 AM
I'm not seeing anything on DEP's website that says complaints will be kept anonymous. I know complaints to DOB about unsafe work sites and crime tips to PD are anonymous but maybe DEP thinks the accused should know their accuser. Makes me curious about the standards for other agencies.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at May 4, 2009 11:09 AM
The DEP normally doesn't even contact the offender unless they find a noise violation, at which point they serve the business with an ECB summons (with a fine and hearing info -- basically like a parking ticket but for noise). The restaurant may have heard about the complaint offhand, but there is no official notification until a violation is found in person by a DEP inspector.
Having seen many of these violation notices, I can say that they never list the name or specific address of the complainant. (Sometimes this can make it difficult for the offender to correct the problem.)
Also, the current NYC Noise Control Code limit for air conditioning equipment is 43 dBA measured at 3' within an open dwelling window. Typically, the AC noise must exceed this amount, as well as exceeding the ambient noise (measured with the AC off) by a few dB, before they will issue a citation.
Posted by: tekniskakustik at May 4, 2009 11:21 AM
Correction -- I meant to say that the code requirement is 42 dBA. If DEP measures 43 dBA, a citation is unlikely.
Posted by: tekniskakustik at May 4, 2009 11:25 AM
We had a very similar situation occur a couple of years ago with a restaurant and a very loud HVAC unit/Using the back garden as late as 4 and 5am. We called initially and they blew us off. We went to the restaurant and the said there was no one around to discuss the matter with--even though we knew the owner(s) were there. So we called 311. They came, took a DB reading and they were indeed in violation. The DEP guys said they were going to immediately inform and ticket them. Out my window, I could see the DEP guys looking at the HVAC unit with the owner of the restaurant then pointing to my home and saying that we were the ones that called it in.
The next day, I had eggs splattered all over the door and windows and was verbally threatened by the owner and subsequently visited by two menacing henchmen that I better not make any more trouble of else....
Thankfully, they insulated the offending HVAC unit.
Posted by: ilikeslices at May 4, 2009 11:43 AM
I'm having a similar problem with my neighbor. They turned on their central air unit (which sits in the back of their garden) during last weekend's heat wave and the loud noise it produced was incredible. Given that I've never heard it before (its been installed for almost two years) I assumed that the unit needed to be serviced. But when I mentioned the noise to my neighbor he told me that they turned it on for the very first time ever last weekend. If this is what the unit sounds like normally it will become unbearable to be out in our garden this summer. We will deal with our neighbor directly to resolve the issue, but does anyone know how we can test the decible level - just in case? Is there some inexpensive device that you can buy, or do you have to file a complaint with the DEP to get them to come to take the reading? We definitely do not want to go down this route. We like our neighbor and want it to stay that way - but the noise really is beyond tolerable.
Posted by: Turtlejam19 at May 4, 2009 12:55 PM
I had a noise issue with one of my neighbors - a church. I wrote a very polite and friendly letter advising them of the issue and asked that they take corrective action as soon as they reasonably could. I received a very polite phone call from the pastor advising that they would correct the issue immediately, which they did.
While the restaurant may be owned by a faceless corporation, in future I would recommend writing to them before getting the city involved. If you don't receive a satisfactory response from a letter, then complain to the city.
Even so, if they did dump the paint on your stoop that is not reasonable, retaliating for making a report to the city is childish and should not be tolerated, however, unless you can prove who dumped the paint, there is not a whole lot you can do.
Posted by: bohuma at May 4, 2009 1:21 PM
I think there is real reason to careful when registering complaints, as I do believe that there could be access to the database, probably through the DOB or other City / state agency.
Just based on what I've heard and read about here in brooklyn over the last few years, I'd say there's a very good chance that a well-connected developer/contractor/business owner could gain access to the "confidential" anonymous information that a caller gives. There is still corruption within the DOB, so...
Make the complaints from a pay phone, just in case...Also, write a letter and call Bloomberg's office when this type of retaliation occurs. I would not file a complaint with just the brooklyn borough officials, because they may be part of the problem.
go to the top as I think Bloomberg wants to clean up the bad behavior, and probably doesn't know the half of what's going on here...
Posted by: appoggiatura at May 4, 2009 1:30 PM
There are a lot of central air units in backyards near me & the noise isn't obtrusive. I'd suggest to your neighbor that he have his unit checked before something burns out.
Posted by: Arkady at May 4, 2009 1:32 PM
@Turtlejam19: What you want is a "sound level meter". You can buy one for less than $50 at Radio Shack. Make sure you set the meter to measure A-weighted decibels or dBA.
Measure the noise with the HVAC unit running, from a point 3' interior of your wide-open window. Also take the same reading when the HVAC unit is off. If the unit is louder than 42 dBA, and is also at least 2-3 dBA louder than the sound level when the HVAC unit is off, the unit is likely in violation and the DEP (if called) would issue a citation on the spot.
For reference, the code section regulating noise from HVAC equipment is NYC Noise Control Code §24-227, "Circulation Devices".
Posted by: tekniskakustik at May 4, 2009 1:45 PM
Appoqqiatura you are a paraniod, mis-informed person. This story clearly is about the DEP, not the DOB. Regardless, Inspectors are not supposed to reveal the source of a complaint. Most of the time they don't know themselves. If they are divulging the complaintants information, they should be reported.
Posted by: Low_Talker338 at May 4, 2009 5:48 PM
I have dealt with DEP several times. They are mostly a bunch of wimps/lazies who will try to avoid issuing summons/fines etc unless the noise exceeds the limit consistently with several dbs (at least 5). Keep bugging them.
Posted by: MaplewoodGuy at May 5, 2009 2:45 AM
Keep bugging the DEP. The complaints are anonymous. They will come measure at your place. The problem with approaching the owner directly is then that they'll know for sure it was you who complained. Get your neighbors involved, too, if you can. I agree that the business should be more careful from the outset about compliance with noise code, rather than putting the burden on residents to complain. If you don't want the DEP to come, you can hire an independent co. to come measure the noise, but I hear it's $$$. Whoever services the unit should have a way to measure the noise to see if the system is in compliance, I would think -- ?? Good luck.
Posted by: meerkatz at May 5, 2009 1:18 PM
I like being direct and adult and everything, but I don't think it's unsociable to call 311 at all. I think it's often savvy. It's often a good idea to minimize person-to-person conflict near your home. Allowing the police or the DEP to handle your conflicts for you is often an effective de-personalizing tool.
Posted by: vanburenproud at May 5, 2009 5:44 PM
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