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May 5, 2009
Downtown Rent Reality Check
I currently live in Carroll Gardens with roommates but am considering moving out. My ideal apartment would be a one bedroom in north Cobble Hill/downtown brooklyn (say between Bergen and Joralemon and Hoyt and Clinton). I'm flexible on other factors (I'm cool with a poorly maintained fourth floor walk-up) though of course nicer is better. A few months ago this seemed beyond my reach (I'm budgeting ~2000 plus utilies and broker fee) but judging from the brokers' windows on Court St. rents have come down. Is it realistic to expect that I could move out and find something now?
Comments
Absolutely. Two Grand??? Who can pay that with only $1,600 in unemployment every month? Severence is drying up quick. Gather your documents, first, last and broker's fee (though you might not need it as landlords are increasingly paying) and be ready to strike. But hurry up! The longer you wait, the less you'll pay.
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at May 5, 2009 12:55 AM
Definately go for it and don't even bother using the brokers they are very expensive for the service they offer. Sublet.com is excellent as well as many other free internet services
Posted by: hannible at May 5, 2009 2:08 AM
There are definitely places in the Heights in that range. I know of at least one (Remsen and Henry, so a block each way out of your requirements) available now, and 3 others in the same block that just turned over.
Posted by: christopher at May 5, 2009 9:12 AM
You'll be fine. I've been looking in the same general area (plus Brooklyn Heights, Boreum Hill, etc.) for a lot cheaper (under $1700) and found plenty of options.
Posted by: alsawo at May 5, 2009 9:23 AM
ditto on Brooklyn Heights. young guy I know just got a great 1-bedroom for 1600 one block off promenade.
Posted by: Ringo at May 5, 2009 11:17 AM
For the love of all that is holy, do not pay a broker's fee for a 12 month lease.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 5, 2009 11:21 AM
You don't need to pay that much if you don't want to. I'm currently paying $1900 for a place that's 1/2 block outside your desired zone -- small 1br but otherwise nice. And we're moving out this month b/c we can now get much more space for an equal or lower price.
Posted by: decafdyke at May 5, 2009 11:35 AM
dont be an idiot and pay a broker's fee. the most unnecessary thing in nyc other than cupcakes, mark jacob bags, and wine bars.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at May 5, 2009 11:40 AM
I feel obligated to chime it that while you should certainly TRY not to use a broker, don't rule it out either. I wasn't finding much in my price range when I was looking at no-fee apartments. When I widened my search to include those with fees, I found a bunch that even after the fee were still cheaper. Then again, that was six months ago. Times may have changed.
Posted by: alsawo at May 5, 2009 11:41 AM
Not a broker, actually.
Posted by: alsawo at May 5, 2009 11:44 AM
Yeah, don't use a broker, unless of course you want selection. I find it so funny how people are so anti-broker, when it's the owners of these properties that ask brokers for help renting them since they don't have the time or want to bother screening tenants, dealing with tenants ridiculous expectations before lease signing, etc....brokers do help, lot's of shady ones out there, but if you want a good place in an area like Brooklyn Hieghts you will most likely be going through a broker. I tried to rent my place once, what a pain in the a**, I had people constantly wasting my time, the applicants all acted like they were buying the palce and had all these rights before moving in, when it was my property!! I hirsed a broker so they could deal with the headache of renting my units. I need that buffer between myself and the public as a lot of landlords do.
Posted by: IrieMan at May 5, 2009 11:48 AM
"dont be an idiot and pay a broker's fee. the most unnecessary thing in nyc other than cupcakes, mark jacob bags, and wine bars."
Quote of the day! Ha ha ha.
It's Marc with a C though.
Posted by: mopar at May 5, 2009 11:48 AM
Yeah, if you do use a broker, just be sure the apartment is $100 cheaper per month than other apartments, or try to knock $100 off the price. It works out the same. Or go to Craigslist and find a real for rent by owner place. (Whatever you do, don't use an unlicensed broker, they are scammers.) Seems like the older landlords in that area tend to use brokers, but the newer younger ones might just use Craigslist.
Posted by: mopar at May 5, 2009 11:51 AM
IrieMan,
That's all fine. Sounds like the broker is providing a service to the owner.
Ergo, the owner should pay the fee.
If the owner wants to make up for that with a higher base rent, that is perfectly fine. But the owner should pay the broker.
It saves the tenant the problem of having a large out-of-pocket expense at the same time that the tenant has a bunch of other large out-of-pocket expenses (moving costs, security deposits, furnishing a new place, etc.), and, more importantly, the owner is in a MUCH better position to negotiate a reasonable rate for the broker's services.
When I was looking for a place in 2007, brokers wanted 12-15% for 12 month leases in park slope, cobble hill, brookyn heights. In the range I was looking in, that worked out to $4000-$5500 for a 12 month lease, and no broker ever showed me more than 2 apartments.
Would you -- as an owner -- pay 12-15% to a broker for finding you a tenant for your apartment?
No?
Then maybe you shouldn't think it is so "funny" that tenants don't want to either.
When I did find my place in 2007, I rented directly from the owner. The place was slightly more expensive than some of the ones brokers had shown me, but it was cheaper than those places + brokers fees.
--------------
Anyway, in the current climate, if you *do* end up using a broker, definitely negotiate the fee. It should be less than 10% (8% is about 1 month rent). Frankly, 1/2 month rent fee sounds generous to me for a 12 month lease unless it is a rent stabilized apartment.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 5, 2009 12:00 PM
quote:
It's Marc with a C though.
lol i should turn in my gay card.
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at May 5, 2009 12:08 PM
Well said North Sloper, I always have priced my apartments to rent and had brokers rent them quickly since I'm not as stubborn as most landlords that rent driect & listen to the market, that said, the owner next store overpriced his apartment by $300 & rented directly to the public, he had the time, I did not. So that's $3600 more on a 12 month lease, so if you rented his place you would have saved some money in 07, but would've been over paying throughout the year. In todays market my broker gets a months rent for services, so in that scenario your losing money at the end of the year. Most brokers only showed you 2 apartments so you worked with multiple brokers it sounds like, but paid them nothing for their time. They aslo probably showed those properties to 20 people & finally got a check. Everyone has a right to make a living, the market decides what rents are, & supply & demand determines what the public will pay. These are the facts. 2 years ago I had NO vacancies & rented my apts in a day, now it takes a few weeks & I'm getting less rent. In another 2 years things wil be back to normal when jobs start coming back. By that time people will be paying brokers high fees again.
Posted by: IrieMan at May 5, 2009 12:13 PM
Well said North Sloper, I always have priced my apartments to rent and had brokers rent them quickly since I'm not as stubborn as most landlords that rent driect & listen to the market, that said, the owner next store overpriced his apartment by $300 & rented directly to the public, he had the time, I did not. So that's $3600 more on a 12 month lease, so if you rented his place you would have saved some money in 07, but would've been over paying throughout the year. In todays market my broker gets a months rent for services, so in that scenario your losing money at the end of the year. Most brokers only showed you 2 apartments so you worked with multiple brokers it sounds like, but paid them nothing for their time. They aslo probably showed those properties to 20 people & finally got a check. Everyone has a right to make a living, the market decides what rents are, & supply & demand determines what the public will pay. These are the facts. 2 years ago I had NO vacancies & rented my apts in a day, now it takes a few weeks & I'm getting less rent. In another 2 years things wil be back to normal when jobs start coming back. By that time people will be paying brokers high fees again.
Posted by: IrieMan at May 5, 2009 12:13 PM
I like wine bars.
Posted by: Isty at May 5, 2009 12:22 PM
"So that's $3600 more on a 12 month lease, so if you rented his place you would have saved some money in 07, but would've been over paying throughout the year. In todays market my broker gets a months rent for services, so in that scenario your losing money at the end of the year."
Yes, if you are signing a 2 or 3 year lease, then a broker fee is not such a big deal. It's just when you have to amortize it over 12 months that it gets so obnoxious.
Also, dealing with brokers in 2007 was an infuriating experience unless you were looking to rent in the $5/mo and up range. I had my time wasted by an annoying series of 20 year old schmucks who were lucky if they could find the keys to the apartment let alone tell me anything about the building or the neighborhood.
I still remember the guy who was clearly pissed off at me for not renting the place he showed on 14th st/7th ave. The apt. was OK but was overpriced, not really what I was looking for, and was over an un-rented commercial space (and he had no idea what type of establishment would be going into the space).
He made a few snide comments about how he would contact me as soon as he found what I was looking for, and then, of course, I never heard from him ahead.
His attitude seemed to be: You said you wanted a 2 bedroom apartment. I have shown you one. Give me money asshole.
Oh, and he was 15 minutes late.
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 5, 2009 12:23 PM
That should be "$5k/mo and up range"...
Posted by: northsloperenter at May 5, 2009 12:24 PM
me and my boyfriend just rented a fantastic very large 1 bedroom apartment on amity street in cobble hill. it was 2200 but that includes wireless internet and satellite tv.
i've seen a lot of inventory in the ~2000 area but unfortunately not a lot of by-owner stuff. it is still early in the month though. we signed the lease in the middle of april and our move-in is june 1.
fyi, we did not use (and refuse to use) a broker -- they're pushy, rude, and charge too much for the little service they offer (specifically that is opening a door and handing you keys).
i think you will have better luck in your price point if you consider park slope. there is far more inventory there and the prices are lower. june 1 is a good time to be looking to move -- a lot of leases start and end in june.
Posted by: duckumu at May 5, 2009 1:23 PM
I had a really hard time finding good listings for CH/CG for rent by owner. Seems like a lot of the landlords have standing relationships with a number of the Court Street brokers. It's highway robbery. I paid a hefty broker fee last year, but I got a great apartment at a decent rent, and hope to stay for a number of years to amortize the broker fee. Still, it was pretty depressing having to fork over the cash but I really preferred the area over other options.
Posted by: CG_ups at May 5, 2009 1:47 PM
As mentioned, sometimes you end up staying in a place for many years. You only pay the broker once, so if it really is someone who knows that neighborhood well, and has access to apartments that won't show up on Craigslist, it can be worth it. And I do think the rents have come down a bit around here and you should be able to find something in the 1800-2000 range without a problem. Report back!
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 5, 2009 1:49 PM
Man, thanks for all the comments! I'm definitely going to go for it and it sounds like I might not have to settle for a poorly maintained fourth floor walk up. Beyond those mentioned my priorities are (in order) good upkeep, dishwasher, lots of space, lots of light, central air and new appliances. I'll see how far I can get down that list.
With respect to the comments on brokers, while I do think brokers are kind of a scam (though, sorry to say Rob, I am a big fan of cupcakes), from my experience in the neighborhood it seems like its hard to get around them. I've tried no fee listings on craigslist and they either seem to be gone or bait-and-switches. I'll give it another shot, but I plan on staying in the apartment 2-3 years so paying the fee would not be the end of the world.
Thanks again for the help! If anyone knows of a place on a July 1 lease w/o a broker fee, please send info along to DellTernry (at Gmail).
Posted by: dellternry at May 5, 2009 5:09 PM
what's wrong with wine bars???
Posted by: wine lover at May 5, 2009 6:13 PM
I am very pleased with the thought and don’t feel like adding anything in it. It’s a perfect answer.
john
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Posted by: jayesh at May 6, 2009 3:35 AM
Broker=Middleman
If you go buy a ring in the Diamond District you pay a alot more for a ring than you would if you "know a guy" who is a Diamond Dealer because you're dealing with the middleman & not going straight to the dealer. If you go directly to the dealer you pay what the diamond is worth with a mark up. If you go through a broker you most likely pay a fee, if you go driectly to the owner you do not.
My broker also does buisness in Manhattan and he was telling me how due to the economy and job loss people are trying to break their lease & asking for brokers for help to get replacment tenants & are offering to pay the fee. These are in buildings that have onsite management so they they require a broker, so the same people that rented direct because they wanted to avoid brokers, now need brokers help. Hey, as they say what goes around comes around! Whether people like it or not, brokers provide a service, yes a lot of people suck at their job i.e. those investment bankers, that laughed all the all to the back years back, but now can not find a job & are stuck with a huge mortagage payments or rent becasue they demanded that lifestyle when they had the money, now it's gone, but their are brokers out there that are actually good at what they do. I delt with a few brokers that SUCKED, & finally found one that works hard, 7 days a week, on commision,no guaranteed pay checks just to pay the bills. He also gives me the peace of mind so I don't have to deal with prospective tenants. I've never had to pay a broker fee & never will. Why? because we live in the greatest city in the world & people pay for things here. In most cities they do not, but here they do. If you want to live here you pay the price.
Posted by: IrieMan at May 6, 2009 10:10 AM
Um...dishwasher? Central air? Now that may not be possible!
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 6, 2009 7:24 PM
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