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May 30, 2009
Crown Heights Safe?
Curious about that enormous townhouse on Saint Marks Avenue that was posted on Brownstoner the other day. What's that area like, is it safe? Don't know anything about Crown Heights except that it's not as "hip" as other areas, but "safe" is far more important than "hip" to me.
Thanks!
Comments
Crown Height is as safe as anywhere else in NYC.. There are families that have lived in Crown Heights for generations and nothing has happen to them. I walk that area often and I see kids playing on the streets etc... There is a rather small part of the area to avoid but there are parts to UWS to avoid also... This house on St. Marks is not wild wild west neighborhood. FG and PS was not hip and rather dangerous at one time. Crown Heights North today I think is a great neighborhood and the people who live there are wonderful.
Posted by: Amzi Hill at May 30, 2009 4:39 PM
safe hood. Considering the $$$ involved in buying such a house + renovations, it's best to get your own assessment via checking out the hood on the amenities (restaurants, supermarkets,....), proximity of the trains, overall feel of the neighborhood. "seeing" is believing. a few strolls through the neighborhood was enough to convince me to buy there.
Posted by: more4less at May 30, 2009 9:05 PM
Crown Heights, like Flatbush is such a large neighborhood that you really have to take it block by block. I live south of Eastern Parkway and I don't have any issues. The basic retail options are here but it's still lagging behind other Brownstone nabes in terms of choices.
Posted by: Crownlfc at May 30, 2009 11:13 PM
Thanks for all your comments. We plan to see the property and if we "fall in love", then a major stroll of the vicinity will be in order. We're certainly not afraid of taking on a big renovation project, nor living in Crown Heights, not so close to the subway. I know it's against the grain, but I'm one of those that doesn't want the smallest house in the nicest neighborhood, I'd rather have the mansion in the so-so neighborhood, that in 5-7 years down the road will be the nice neighborhood...does that make any sense???
Posted by: Misty B at May 31, 2009 12:25 AM
"I'd rather have the mansion in the so-so neighborhood, that in 5-7 years down the road will be the nice neighborhood...does that make any sense???"
I remember people saying this in the 1970's. Crown Heights will always be 5-7 years from being a nice neighborhood.
Posted by: MrHancock at May 31, 2009 9:19 AM
It totally makes sense to me! I'm right there with you. I'm a big fan of being near the subway though. And some amenities.
Posted by: rh at May 31, 2009 3:18 PM
Actually, while I like Crown Heights, no, it does not make any sense to say you want the mansion in the so-so neighborhood.
It is an axiom in real estate that you never want to have the nicest house on the block. How are you going to sell the place to people who want something that fancy when it's surrounded by less attractive buildings? What is smarter is to buy the crummiest house on a great block, get a good deal on it, fix it up, and instantly benefit from the prestige of the houses around you.
Posted by: Rehab at May 31, 2009 9:16 PM
If you have to ask...
***Bid half off peak comps***
Posted by: Brownstones Half Off at June 1, 2009 9:29 AM
"What's that area like, is it safe?"
Where do you currently reside (for comparison's sake)?
Posted by: East New York at June 1, 2009 3:30 PM
After years of touting the virtues of Crown Heights, to the derision of many, I'm now tempted to answer that question with another - Is Crown Heights unsafe? I wish people would ask that instead. That way, the default is safety, not the erroneous assumption that it is not.
Mr. Hancock, you have no idea what you are talking about. Crown Heights already is a nice neighborhood. St. Marks is a gorgeous block, this house is a masterpiece in need of love and money, and it would already be mine, if I had the money. Enjoy your trip over here, you won't be disappointed. The house will knock your socks off.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at June 1, 2009 3:44 PM
crown heights has very nice parts and very "not nice parts".
There are always safer parts of brownstone brooklyn, but i dont think this area is over the line.
based on my understanding, this is in the nice part.
Posted by: slick at June 1, 2009 3:44 PM
Misty B, I just want to add that it's important to go off of your impressions of the neighborhood NOW rather than projections of what you think it might be someday. Crown Heights has a lot to offer right now, and if you can appreciate that then you'll probably like living there. But if you're thinking, "This could be nice someday when there's a Starbucks close by" then it's probably not for you.
Posted by: StuyMom at June 1, 2009 3:52 PM
having lived in the very bustling with amenities Brooklyn Heights and now in Crown heights, i would never go back. If you want a great house on a great block (you're right opposite the Brooklyn Children's Museum) and in a great neighborhood, you'll love the place. But love it for what it is and what you can make it- don't love it for possibilites. They may not happen and you'll be disappointed. This section of Crown heights has lots of families and people who have lived here sometimes over generations. this is not a so-so neighborhood. Its a good one- that said, it ain't Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope and it doesn't need to be.
Posted by: bxgrl at June 1, 2009 4:47 PM
Misty B:
When I grew in Crown Heights during the 50's and early 60's, St. Marks Avenue was considered "prime." The amenities and services are still there, in some cases enhanced.
Brower Park and the expanded Children's Museum are directly across the street. One block away on St. Marks is a public library. And there's a supermarket at the corner of Nostrand Avenue, just as there was when I was a boy.
Between Nostrand and Brooklyn Avenues are large apartment houses, some of which are part of the Crown Heights North Historic District. Back in the day they had doormen, maids' rooms, and doctors offices, which speak to their basic quality, whatever their current condition. (Some of them, I understand, have become cooperatives and are quite stable.)
If you have children (and a house this size is built for family life), there are also the Jewish Children's Museum, Brooklyn Museum, Children's Library at the Brooklyn Public Library, Botanical Garden, and Prospect Park -- all within walking distance. Except for the Jewish museum, a recent addition to the neighborhood, my little brother and I regularly used all of these facilities, even though we lived further away on Pacific Street.
As an exclusively residential street, St. Marks Avenue was always impressive, but I also remember it as rather dark and quiet at night, much like Eastern Parkway. The doormen along the street provided its eyes and ears. If they're no longer on staff, it may feel isolated and lonely after dark.
This house has been the subject of much attention on Brownstoner. A grand old wreck, its price has plummetted by almost half over the past several months. More reductions may be in order, given the projected state of the economy. Take due diligence, visit the neighborhood both day and night, and, if the place interests you, negotiate -- hard. Even with contractors' current reduced prices, you'll likely spend as much as the cost of the house to bring it back.
Nostalgic on Park Avenue
Posted by: NOP at June 1, 2009 4:54 PM
Crown Heights' overall crime rate is lower than the national crime rate. It is also lower than that of neighboring neighborhoods such as Prospect Heights. Seems as if I cannot site references here, but you can search online and find the data to support it.
Posted by: Wont UB My Nabor at June 1, 2009 5:03 PM
I've lived in CH for over four years now and have never once felt "unsafe" much less experienced any intimidation or been the victim of a crime against my person. Once someone stole my front gate, but I tend to doubt they were from the neighborhood as they most certainly carried it away in a vehicle. In comparison, while I was living in Williamsburg (across the street from what is now Northside Piers), there were several armed robberies outside of my building and someone broke my car window.
I think CH may be unsafe if you were planning on setting up shop selling drugs as there would be some established vendors unfriendly to new competition. Presumably that is not your situation or you would be seeking advice elsewhere.
I am not familiar with the statistics, but anecdotally I hear of a lot more muggings etc. in Prospect Heights than in Crown Heights. I think that CH is a more cohesive community with more homeowners and long-term residents, as compared to PH.
Posted by: supersleuth at June 2, 2009 2:02 PM
Crown Heights has great things about it and not so great things (i.e. lacks a lot of close-by amenities such as nice bars, nice restaurants, interesting cafe life--I find it pretty "dry" in terms of amenities close by). The brownstones, if kept up, have lovely original wood work and details and of course the prices are lower than Manhattan and other sections of Brooklyn. Not great things are that if you don't reside near a subway stop you likely have a long walk. The few Crown Heights friends I have had all had to buy cars as they felt restricted otherwise (so figure in that expense). Each friend had things done to their car, i.e. vandalism and car accidents (people hitting their car parked on the street, no one leaving insurance info). Each friend had drug dealing activity taking place close by to their lovely brownstone. Each friend heard gun shots at least 2X per year near their home. One friend found a dead body outside her brownstone in the past few years. I assume that the Hasidic community is restricting the neighborhood growing in terms of additional amenities? Not sure why more is not being done otherwise. My friends truly love their houses; but their lives outside the brownstones are not fully engaged by their neighborhood. It always seems CH is on the verge of breaking through, improving -- and it never happens.
As someone wisely said, it is block by block; you have to do your research and footwork both during the daytime and the night time; you have to ask the police department for criminal activity statistics and you have to check real estate values. Have they risen and will they rise or will you invest a ton in an older brownstone only to see you cannot recoup that should you sell. How are the public schools etc. and what are their ratings?
New York Magazine does a pretty thorough neighborhood by neighborhood review each year--check that out. It also does a rating system for resale value. A friend of mine has resided there eight full years--little has improved in terms of amenities and the friend always drives elsewhere to Park Slope etc. to purchase groceries etc. A good thing though is some blocks there do have strong neighborhood associations. That can make for a strong community spirit and a more engaged street of neighbors.
Posted by: PeaceNYC2011 at June 2, 2009 10:52 PM
" I assume that the Hasidic community is restricting the neighborhood growing in terms of additional amenities? Not sure why more is not being done otherwise. "
Well you know what they say about assumptions. Why assume such a ridiculous thing?
Posted by: bxgrl at June 3, 2009 1:25 PM
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