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April 10, 2009
Safe Neighborhoods?
I would appreciate recommendations on what neighborhoods other than Brooklyn Heights might be clean, safe, handy, neighborly, and convenient to Manhattan. We're moving to NYC from Colorado this summer, and we love Brooklyn Heights, but based on research, we're concerned that we may not find what we want in BH very soon. Any other suggestions? (Son will be in school in Midtown so near to Manhattan is best and I need subway within two blocks of home.) Thanks, Everyone!
Comments
I can speak for the two neigborhoods that I have lived in Brooklyn. Park Slope is a very safe neighborhood that will give you a commute time to midtown of about 45 mins. We moved from there simply because its cheaper, to Bay Ridge. We live two blocks from the subway and it take my husband about an hour to get to midtown. Its also a very safe neighborhood.
There are many other safe nabes in Brooklyn and I'm sure that many others will chime in soon to share their experiences. Welcome to Brooklyn!!!
Posted by: italiana71 at April 10, 2009 4:13 PM
It might be easier to ask us to list the UNSAFE neighborhoods. Large swaths of Brooklyn are just breeding grounds for yuppies and hipsters so you won't have much to worry about.
I don't know you, obviously, but I'm thinking Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carrol Gardens and Park Slope will probably suit you best.
Posted by: RaginCajun at April 10, 2009 4:49 PM
Clean: Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, Parts of Bensonhurst, Bed-Stuy, Wndsor Terrace and Ditmas Park and anywhere else where people regularly pick up or pay someone to pick up the trash in front of their homes and businesses.
Safe: NYC’s crime rate is the lowest it’s been in years, although gang-motivated incidents have soared 37 percent since 2005—including inicdents in high schools in tony Chelsea and Gramercy. NY street gangs and other criminals are not as territorial as their counterparts in other cities like Chicago, L.A. and Colorado Springs. They tend to travel throughout the city generally targeting people who look like them or people with whom they have "beef" like rival gangs or other drug cartels or families. As long as you and your son are not affiliated with a street gang, a drug cartel, the mob or some other disorderly lot you could live anywhere with a little street smarts because sh*t can happen anywhere. You'd probably be most comfortable in a neighborhood like Park Slope though.
Handy: ? If you are talking about ammenities, most of the areas mentioned have decent places to eat, hang-out, shop, launder clothes and the like, if not in walking distance then certainly a short train or car ride away. Will you have a car when you relocate? If so, parking is a big issue in all of these areas with the exception of Ditmas Park.
Neighborly: Ditmas Park, Bed-Stuy, Prospect Lefferts Gardens.
Convenient to Manhattan: It is not just the neighborhood but where you are in the neighborhood in proximity to public transportation. I can get into midtown from Ditmas Park quicker than friends in Park Slope because I am only a block away from the express "B" train and they have to walk quite a distance to the local "F" line. In general, Brooklyn Heights, Fort Greene and Boerum Hill would be the quickest commute. Just check your proximity to the subway and which subway line you are on. Both of these things make a big difference in the commute.
Good luck.
Posted by: Chosen at April 10, 2009 5:35 PM
"I don't know you, obviously, but I'm thinking Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carrol Gardens and Park Slope will probably suit you best."
Yeah, probably the least threatening neighborhoods that are close to Manhattan.
Park Slope is further, although the north end has better subway access than Cobble Hill or Carrol Gardens. The south end of Carrol Gardens gets a little grimy in my opinion, but I have no reason to think it is unsafe.
You might also want to look at the Upper East Side of Manhattan as prices have been dropping like a rock there, although you will be condemned to the very crowded 4/5/6 subway line. Just don't go too close to the 59th street bridge as the traffic noise will be annoying.
If you say what type of living space you are looking for in what price range and whether you want to buy/rent, you might get better answers.
I mean, will you not find what you want in BH because it is too expensive or because you want a 5 bedroom single family home (in which case, Ditmas Park may be the place you are looking for)?
Posted by: northsloperenter at April 10, 2009 5:54 PM
When I see posts like this I know that people genuinely have concerns about living in a safe environment but I can't help but wonder if "safe" or "least threatening" for some means fewer people of color or fewer poor people. These are not things that any smart realtor will tell you over the telephone or in an email. I am not saying that this is the case here but I always wonder.
Posted by: Chosen at April 10, 2009 7:17 PM
"I can't help but wonder if "safe" or "least threatening" for some means fewer people of color or fewer poor people."
For me it means a neighborhood where some naive, non-street smart outsider can reasonably be expected not to be scammed, targeted, or ostracized by someone living in the neighborhood.
Generally, this means upper middle class neighborhoods, unless you know the age, gender, race, religion, and economic situation of the person in question. Then they will likely be comfortable in neighborhoods that match their profile, whether or not it is upper middle class.
For example, a middle aged, working class russian jew would probably do better in a few specific neighborhoods, but wouldn't have any real problems in park slope or cobble hill (assuming he could afford it).
Posted by: northsloperenter at April 10, 2009 8:33 PM
I suggest Park Slope although it is a bit further out than Cobble Hill or Boerum Hill. Using the Atlantic/Pacific subway station (which is at one edge of the Slope and just a stop or so away from the other stations in/around Park Slope), you have access to numerous subway lines, including express lines that will take you directly to Canal or Grand Street. From there, midtown is a pretty quick shot.
In addition, Park Slope is filled with leafy blocks with rows of brownstones, a good mix of other housing (smaller apartment buildings, new condo developments, some traditional pre-War buildings near Prospect Park), and great shopping and dining. Lots of families and good cultural amenities - you have Prospect Park, the Botanic Garden, and the Brooklyn Museum nearby. You really can't go wrong with relocating to the Slope.
(I work in the Heights and like its convenience. There are some beautiful blocks in the Heights and I love its proximity to the waterfront, but still prefer living in Park Slope). The Heights can also be a bit stodgy, and dining options have never been great.
Posted by: bookistan at April 10, 2009 8:38 PM
You might also look specifically at which subway line your child will take to school and then look for a place on that subway line that fits your criteria.
FYI, how far things are on the subway has nothing to do with how far they are by car. It depends where you are going and what line you are on. Being on an express stop and not having to transfer makes a huge difference. You can be a ways physically but only 15 minutes from midtown by subway.
The disadvantage of a place that is really, really far, such as Bay Ridge (and I believe Ditmas Park), is that it is not practical to take a taxi home after 9:30 when the subway slows down.
I guess the Hudson Valley is not practical? It's beautiful and about a 40 minute train ride into Grand Central.
Posted by: mopar at April 10, 2009 10:51 PM
If you need to be close to midtown in a safe environment without spending a lot of money, go to Queens. Seriously. You can get a nice place for much less money than park slope etc. and midtown subway access is much better and faster (depending of course on where exacly in queens you end up).
Posted by: lechacal at April 11, 2009 8:00 AM
I was going to suggest Queens, too. Jackson Hts and Sunnyside are lovely neighborhoods.
Posted by: mshook at April 11, 2009 8:46 AM
Mopar I live in Bay Ridge and I can assure you that it is not really, really far. It might be further away but we've only added 15 minutes to our commute by moving here from Park Slope, really. If you live far from a subway, just like any other nabe, your commute will take longer.
As far as Queens is concerned - Astoria is also a great area.
Posted by: italiana71 at April 11, 2009 8:59 AM
Italiana, that was my point. Bay Ridge is close and fast by subway, but very far from midtown Manhattan by taxi. I'd say a ride would be $30 or $40, no? At least one night a week I am forced to stay in Manhattan for dinner for whatever reason, and it is not practical to take the subway back after 9:30 pm.
Re Jackson Heights, the OP will probably be put off by the appearance of Roosevelt Ave. under the subway tracks. But it is true that there are many beautiful family apartments in the historic area with fireplaces for $450,000 to $550,000. Most require 30 percent down and have very low maintenance. The E train gets you into the Upper East Side in 15 minutes.
Posted by: mopar at April 11, 2009 11:21 AM
It's one thing for an adult who doesn't punch a time clock to commute to Midtown, another for a child to do it who absolutely needs to get to school on time every day. OP, any neighborhood you consider, test the commute yourself first.
Posted by: traditionalmod at April 11, 2009 12:02 PM
My Wife and I live in Carroll Gardens which is a great neighborhood with lots of history, restaurants and good pedestrian vibe. 1 1/2blocks to 'f' train and unfortunately for us, we need to sell it. Not sure what your price range is but you can check it out through the listing on Warren Lewis:
http://warrenlewis.com/cgi-bin/re/re_show.pl?re_command=show&ID=6849
Posted by: eigenj at April 11, 2009 12:05 PM
I know you didn't ask for opinions eigenj, so forgive me for butting in! But that space is absolutely starved and begging for crown moldings. Bare of detail as it is, it looks new-condo not brownstone-Brooklyn. Molding isn't complicated to install and you'd add a ton of charm and character doing so.
Posted by: traditionalmod at April 11, 2009 12:19 PM
You might enjoy Carroll Gardens. We moved to Brooklyn from the western US in 2005 and although we initially looked in Brooklyn Heights, we found more space within our budget in Carroll Gardens. It's a family-friendly neighborhood with a lot of amenities. The commute to Midtown is about 45 minutes door to door, with the subway ride about half an hour. You might not find a place two blocks from the subway, but you could probably find a place within a ten-minute walk. The only subway line running through the neighborhood into the city is the F train.
There are wonderful neighborhoods all over Brooklyn, so if you have an opportunity to visit before you move, you might enjoy spending a few days exploring them before you decide. Good luck!
Posted by: kampala at April 11, 2009 3:47 PM
I've lived in Bay Ridge for 26 years and I will vouch that it is clean and safe. I was born in Brooklyn and lived here my whole life (I'm 48). Of course, no matter where you live in NYC you have to have a good amount of street smarts and always watch your back and be careful. No matter where you live in this city there is crime, both serious and petty. In Bay Ridge, home break-ins are the most prevalent. Street crimes, like muggings, usually occur between midnight and 5 am, because we have a good amount of bars and people walking home drunk make good targets. BR has a very nice waterfront park that runs for 4 miles, with bike paths, playgrounds, baseball and soccer fields. Its easy to get to other neighborhoods and cultural attractions, like Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM), Botanic gardens and the Brooklyn Museum from here. We have a good amount of restaurants and plentiful, affordable shopping. When we decided to buy a house last year, I considered all of Brooklyn, but couldn't find any place that compared to BR, so we bought here.
The other thing about Bay Ridge is that you will find it alot more affordable than Park Slope, Cobble Hill, Brooklyn Heights and some of the other places mentioned. Not just in Real estate, but in the prices in the local stores also. I worked in Park Slope for 12 years and was amazed at how much higher prices in the stores were. You will get much larger space in in BR for the same prices as the other neighborhoods. My advice is to get a rental in Bay Ridge then explore the other neighborhoods and decide where you want to settle.
Posted by: premadas at April 12, 2009 11:47 AM
My gosh! You are all amazing in your answers! Complete, thorough, thoughtful, informative... I'm totally impressed! You know, there are still a lot of people out here in the hinderlands who still think N'Yorkers are rude, dangerous, and unhelpful. Totally opposite of what we're finding during our trips to NYC or on this VERY helpful blog.
To be more clear, here's what I meant by some of my vague phrasing in my original posting: 1. Safe: I don't want to have to look over my shoulder every step if walking home at night. Race is not an issue with us at ALL. In our opinions, 'safe' has nothing to do with color. We ask about other 'safe' neighborhoods because we felt very safe in BH while there for a week, but just aren't familiar with the other parts of Brooklyn. 2. "We may not find what we want in Brooklyn Heights for a while" means that we need a 2 BR, 2 BA apartment VERY near the subway (physical reasons), it MUST have a washer/dryer in apartment (same reason), and must have elevator (same reason), be fairly near Manhattan, and have a doorman. We know that it may take a while to find all of these requirements in one apartment. (Budget: $3000-ish, with six months up front) 3. My son is 18, 6'5", and will be attending American Academy of Dramatic Arts on Madison Ave. He's a subway pro, so no problem with his getting to Manhattan and back OK. I'm the one who'll stay lost for the first year. :-)
Again, all this good information is quite helpful, and much appreciated! I will follow leads in every neighborhood that you all have recommended. See you in Brooklyn! We can't wait!
Posted by: HoldYourHorses at April 13, 2009 2:07 AM
eigenj, thanks for the information on your home. It's very nice. We will only be leasing, as our stay there will be only 2-3 years.... unless we decide we love NYC too much to leave.
Posted by: HoldYourHorses at April 13, 2009 2:28 AM
You won't find the green, landmarked, low-rise aspects of Brooklyn, but apartment-wise, I think you'll find much else of what you want in Long Island City, Queens: http://www.avaloncommunities.com/avaloncore/nfloor.asp?commname=Avalon-Riverview
Posted by: vinca at April 13, 2009 8:59 AM
Hmmm...Your budget might be a little low, but I'll be renting out a gorgeous 3 bedroom duplex in Park Slope 1.5 blocks from the Q train and 3 from the 2/3 around June 1st of this year. It's not 2 baths, but it is 1.5, washer/dryer, separate dining room, baths and kitchen new, total renovation, but with lots of old details still there...and that's my endorsement for Park Slope (great neighborhood...can't beat the park or, at least where I am, the subways...)
No doorman, top two floors of house, but we'll be owner-occupying the bottom and we work from home.
If you're interested, shoot me an email at raisarex AT gmail.com
Posted by: RAR at April 13, 2009 10:41 AM
You are thinking large building... but if race really isn't an issue but safety and proximity to the subway is, I would consider a garden duplex very close to the Utica Avenue stop of the A train, in Stuy Heights.
Gorgeous blocks, big houses, laundry in-house and stuff like that are common, plus easy parking (assuming there's a physical disability?) and very friendly, I think very safe.
Posted by: vanburenproud at April 13, 2009 3:40 PM
Sounds like you want a post-war building in Manhattan. Buildings in Brooklyn don't typically have doormen. The ones close to Manhattan are also typically walkups. Maybe try the formerly socialist coops on the Lower East Side. Maybe also Stuvyevsant Town, but I'm not sure how close it is to the subway.
You might also find a few post-war buildings with what you're looking for in Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, etc. -- maybe check with a long-time neighborhood agent there (with a storefront office) as they are sure to know.
Be cautious about handing over six months of rent. Typically they want first, last and security OR first, security and broker fee. Watch out for unlicensed brokers posing as owners on Craigslist.
Posted by: mopar at April 13, 2009 5:01 PM
Try Prospect Heights, especially west of Underhill Ave. It's significantly cheaper than Park Slope (probably by a good 20%) yet ironically has better subway service (the 2/3 at either Grand Army Plaza or Brgen St; and the Q at 7th Ave) than moct of the slope. It's also very close to Prospect Park, the Brooklyn Botanical Garden, the Brooklyn Museum and the Brooklyn Library (central branch). For $3k, you should be able to find something very nice in Prospect Heights. If you check out the New York Times real estate section you can search for rentals and see a map of where every neighborhood is.
But whichever nabe you choose, I strongly recommend you consider being close to Prospect Park -- it's a fantastic amenity. Everything is a trade off of course and it will put you slightly further from Manhattan but many of us in Brooklyn consider it superior to Central Park. The (almost free) concert series that runs from June through mid August is just one of the highlights.
Posted by: grand army at April 14, 2009 7:11 PM
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, ALL! I PRINT OUT YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS, STUDY THEM WITH MAPS, AND REALLY DO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU SAY. I WILL CHECK EACH OF THESE OPTIONS. BY THE TIME WE'VE LANDED AND NESTED IN, WE'LL FEEL LIKE WE BELONG. ALL HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED!!
Posted by: HoldYourHorses at April 15, 2009 10:46 PM
I would check out Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill and Carroll Gardens.
Posted by: 2800bailey at April 27, 2009 1:38 PM
You would be surprised at how many buildings in Bay Ridge have doormen, elevators, great supers, and well-kept laundry rooms. $3000 will get you a 2-3 bedroom, 2 bathroom rental, with a terrace, on Shore Road with a veiw of the Verrazano Bridge, park and water.
Posted by: premadas at July 27, 2009 7:05 PM
Is Greenpoint an area to avoid? It wasn't mentioned by a single one of my 'advisors', above. We're in NYC now, in temp quarters on the upper east side, and are looking this weekend for longer term in Brooklyn. We are looking at an apt in Greenpoint, and am wondering why that location didn't make the recommended lists sent by Brownstoners. EN
Posted by: HoldYourHorses at September 12, 2009 10:01 AM
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