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April 23, 2009
Propane grilling on roofs?
For Christmas I bought my boyfriend a tiny propane grill to use on our apartment's roof. Looking for someplace to buy propane, we learned instead that it's actually illegal to use propane grills on rooftops.
Is this a law people take seriously or tend to disobey? We'd never leave the grill unattended, of course...
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/safety/barbeque.shtml
Comments
I guess my barbecue on my deck is illegal. Tough shit. :)
Is it your building? If so, who is likely to complain? I believe HD sells propane.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 23, 2009 11:59 AM
I rent. Neither the landlord nor the super are ever around, so I'd definitely never get caught. Just want to make sure it's not a seriously bad idea...
Posted by: alsawo at April 23, 2009 12:07 PM
Propane tanks are only dangerous if they leak in enclosed spaces. As far as a renter, I'd be upset if my tenants brought one without asking me. That said, they did ask and now they have one in the yard.
Just don't get the propane turkey frier and throw the frozen turkey into it!!! :)
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 23, 2009 12:13 PM
home depot sells them
Posted by: guikazoid at April 23, 2009 12:41 PM
Lowe's has them too. This law is definitely honored in the breach.
Posted by: slopefarm at April 23, 2009 12:55 PM
I see many people disobey this law without consequence. However, what if a fire started and burned down not only your house but the entire block? What if people were killed? I deal with people all day long who never thought that a small action on their part would lead to disaster. Maybe I am over reacting but I wouldn't do it. Is a grilled burger really worth it? I would just get a George Foreman or similar type grill.
Posted by: Chosen at April 23, 2009 1:03 PM
Is this one of those teeny peeny grills that uses the small canisters of propane, not the larger/regular sizes? Not sure if a Home Depot carries those.
Posted by: MAT at April 23, 2009 1:17 PM
MAT...those use the propane cannisters for a propane torch. You can get them at ANY hardware store.
Yes, Chosen, a grilled burger or steak is really worth it. A propane barbecue is not going to start a fire like that. When's the last time you heard about one???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 23, 2009 1:36 PM
Thanks, MAT and daveinbedstuy. I do indeed need one of those small canisters. Good to know finding one shouldn't be terribly difficult.
Posted by: alsawo at April 23, 2009 1:42 PM
i always heard that propane cannot be transported in any of the tunnels, not sure that is worthy info. I think they are technically illegal when used on a building:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/safety/barbeque.shtml
Posted by: jp2 at April 23, 2009 1:45 PM
jp2, you are correct about the propane/tunnel thing.
alsawao...yes, ANY hardware store and maybe even a good paint store will carry those. They are primarily used for plumbing (sweating copper pipes) burning off paint and crisping the top layer of creme brulee.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 23, 2009 2:00 PM
I personally know of two fires last summer from propane gas grills being used on roofs and one from a charcoal grill on a balcony DIBS. The Fire Department responded quickly and extinguished the fires before they got out of control. The Fire Marshalls did issue summonses in all cases but there would have been harsher penalties if their were injuries or deaths.
Every year many people are injured and some killed in fires started by barbeque grills. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't barbeque, it means that we should be smart about it and a barbeque on a roof just isn't smart. Better to go by your local Firehouse though and ask them how they feel about this. I wouldn't do it alsawo.
Posted by: Chosen at April 23, 2009 2:50 PM
DIBS, a wealth of propane information.
Chosen, a burger buzzkill :)
Chosen, care to elaborate on the propane fires? We can all visualize how a charcoal related fire can start, but propane grill related fires? They must have been extremely careless idiots to cause a fire.
Posted by: MAT at April 23, 2009 3:35 PM
Actually if a grill is going to be a fire hazard it is usually one of the little guys because they are poorly constructed and tend to rot out and they are so low to the ground that grease dripping out could flare up. It is incredibly unlikely but I would spend the extra $40 and get a grill with legs. Your back will thank you. Besides the little guys don't put off enough heat to do a good steak justice. As far as getting caught I wouldn't sweat it as long as smoke isn't blowing into your neighbors open windows.
Posted by: Bklyn Fire Alarm Guy at April 23, 2009 4:33 PM
It is true that it is illegal to transport propane tanks through the tunnels. I had a box full of the little canisters for a small heater for use during the December ice storm in New England at a property I have there. I called Port Authority and they said no propane of any size may go through the tunnels.
Posted by: cpchkp at April 23, 2009 4:37 PM
Fire Alarm Guy...I gotta agree that those small ones are a lot more poorly constructed than the large ones and probably more dangerous.. Besides, the larger ones have gotten quite cheap over the years. That said, the construction quality reflects it and there's nothing better than a Ducane.
I use charcoal because its so readily available at the bodegas, the food tastes better and its easy to start anyway.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 23, 2009 5:01 PM
Hardwood charcoal from Trader Joe's is the best. Soaked chips or chunks from fruit woods (cherry, apple, pear) are also great for flavor. But NEVER, NEVER put those in a grill that is made for gas. The hardwood coals will melt through the aluminum castings and drip onto the rubber hoses. I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago.
Posted by: southslope at April 23, 2009 5:19 PM
Anyone care to explain how a gas-powered cooking device is any more dangerous on a roof than it is in, say, your kitchen.
I don't know about you, but I have four open burners AND an oven in my kitchen. And there's a lot more crap that can catch on fire in there. Of course, should a fire start in my kitchen -- due to grease, spills, a dish-towel too close to a flame -- and burn the block down, I'd feel like a total ass and be overcome with guilt.
So maybe we should make stoves illegal.
Of course, alsawo, the fact of the matter is it's still illegal. I've kept a wood-fired SMOKER on a roof deck. I've seen plenty of gas ones. So knock yourself out. And be very careful.
Just don't be one of those people who comes back in the forum in a state of righteous indignation if you DO get ticketed for breaking the law :)
Posted by: RaginCajun at April 23, 2009 5:26 PM
Working late tonight but that gave me a chance to speak to the Fire Marshall involved in both of the propane tank fires that I knew about. He said that both fires occurred when the grills were used for the first time after the tanks had been stored for the winter. He said that this is because the tubes that lead into the burners were blocked with bugs and grease winter storage. As far as cooking on your stove, that may be more dangerous than a grill, I don't know but I do know that that cooking in the kitchen on a gas stove is legal. If you burn your house down trying to boil water and someone is injured or worst, you will not go to jail.
Alsawo, I know that my opinion, and that is all that this is, is not in the majority but don't do it. Just know that if you do and you happen to be the one who sets Brooklyn ablaze this summer, the powers that be can track you back to this blog and know that knew better. Just Kidding - but not really.
Posted by: Chosen at April 24, 2009 12:01 AM
Sorry to also rain on the parade, but it is totally against NYC fire codes and your building will be fined if some nosey neighbor decides to report you. Also, if your building finds out or gets fined, you could be evicted(especially if you're renting in a co-op building).
Posted by: Misty B at April 24, 2009 12:02 PM
This is easily solved. Bring the bbq downstairs and do your grilling in the front of your house. Assuming you don't live in a huge building, no one will care. Folks on my block (we have front gardens) do it all the time.
Once it cools off, bring it back upstairs (store on fire-escape if you don't want it in the apartment.
If you are only talking about a tiny grill...this should be no problem.
Safe and easy.
Posted by: stephenb at April 24, 2009 3:30 PM
This is easily solved. Bring the bbq downstairs and do your grilling in the front of your house. Assuming you don't live in a huge building, no one will care. Folks on my block (we have front gardens) do it all the time.
Once it cools off, bring it back upstairs (store on fire-escape if you don't want it in the apartment.
If you are only talking about a tiny grill...this should be no problem.
Safe and easy.
Posted by: stephenb at April 24, 2009 3:31 PM
This is easily solved. Bring the bbq downstairs and do your grilling in the front of your house. Assuming you don't live in a huge building, no one will care. Folks on my block (we have front gardens) do it all the time.
Once it cools off, bring it back upstairs (store on fire-escape if you don't want it in the apartment.
If you are only talking about a tiny grill...this should be no problem.
Safe and easy.
Posted by: stephenb at April 24, 2009 3:31 PM
I don't think anyone on this site would condone driving drunk or suggest that the law can be broken as long as you don't get caught. There's a reason open grills or any kind are illegal on rooftops -- Fire kills. You are betting everything you own that if an accident happens your face will be on the front cover of the Post with a picture of the smoldering building and the banner headline WELL DONE. Enjoy your meal...
Posted by: lifeofreilly at April 24, 2009 4:22 PM
every time you cross the street you are taking your life into your hands. However, there is a way to do it safely while minimizing risks. Some people jaywalk across the boulevard of Death while some wait for the light to change. Different people have different acceptance of the levels of risk.
If you talk to a fire marshal, they will tell you horror stories about their business. It's the same for the policy, physicians, lawyers, accountants, actuaries, and just about every other profession. I dont know enough about grills and fire safety to give a responsible opinion. However, it's just a matter of being careful. There's no reason to exacerbate the dangers in order to gain compliance by fear.
Posted by: slick at April 24, 2009 5:22 PM
If you jaywalk on Queens Blvd and get hit by a car, your actions will more than likely affect only you and the person that hits you. If you set a fire the consequences are much more dire.
Posted by: Chosen at April 25, 2009 10:19 PM
daveinbedstuy you are truly an selfish moron. After spending 19 years in the fire department and seeing what truly idiotic things people do I can tell you all first hand that propane bbq's are dangerous. There is a reason this law is in place and just because daveinbedstuy thinks his burger is good enough to possibly subject his family and neighbors the loss of their homes is truly, as I said earlier, selfish.
Many times the operator of the bbq is not being idiotic or careless, they may simply not be aware of how to operate the bbq properly and the propane tank may not be connected properly. This can lead to many problems.
And if you think that it is safe simply because it is a "small tank just like the plumbers use" think again, those can do plenty of damage in the time it takes you to call the fire department and the few minutes it takes for them to get there.
In short, I would not do it.
Posted by: danm at April 26, 2009 1:28 AM
Danm or anyone who cares to respond, is it only propane gas tanks that are illegal; how about just using coal while rooftop grilling?
Posted by: zucko at April 26, 2009 1:40 PM
Any flame source in the vicinity of the wood beneath your roof is illegal and can be deadly (or at least extremely expensive in the case of a fire). I'd stay away.
Posted by: mblevine at April 26, 2009 10:08 PM
Sooo...if my deck was made of pavers or synthetic material would i be okay?
Posted by: zucko at April 26, 2009 10:41 PM
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