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April 7, 2009
Garden Apt Egress Laws?
Hi,
I hope someone in the Brownstoner community can help me out with this. I am considering buying a two family, three story house. The garden floor is set up as the rental. The problem is that the previous owners created an extension off the parlor floor that completely blocks the rear windows and door of the garden apartment. At this point they are just sort of there looking out to underneath the extension. I was thinking that we could build a wall where the windows are and leave a door to use this space as storage. My concern is whether or not it is safe or legal to not have a rear exit. The only door would be under the stoop. Does anyone have any insight?
Thanks,
Leah
Comments
You have to have a rear exit. Better check on the fire laws and such. And are you saying you would simply cover the windows in the garden apt. rear? Can you explain a little better re what you meant?
Posted by: bxgrl at April 6, 2009 6:42 PM
Definitely a fire code violation to block up a rear door. Are you suggesting boxing in the bottom of a deck? I'd be careful, if you get an inspector to come out, you might find the extension that's there is already illegal. Big headache.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at April 6, 2009 7:23 PM
My first reaction is how did you ever rent out a space without any windows, door or air except at the front?! Is it really boxed in under your extension?
Use common sense. Open up the area under the extension and it will conform to the spirit, if maybe not the code, of egress and light/ventilation requirements.
Posted by: cmu at April 6, 2009 8:40 PM
It depends on the purpose of the back room on the garden floor. If the parlor floor overhangs the full width of the garden floor windows by more than 8' then that back room would not be considered living space. It is not necessary to have a back door; egress windows (specific defined size) are acceptable if the back garden room is living space. There are enough questions that you should consult with an architect familiar with the code.
Posted by: jfss at April 6, 2009 8:54 PM
Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to answer!
I will try to clarify a little more. The rear part of the garden level is set up as the kitchen/ bathroom. The front room has two windows and the exit under the front stoop. It would obviously be nicest to dig out under the extension and extend the room back, add windows, a door etc. Does anyone know how much a job like that would cost? Jfss, the extension does cover the full width and overhangs by about 10'. The back windows currently just look out to under the extension with no exterior light.
How would I know if the extension was legal or not?
Lastly, this space wasn't actually in use as a rental before but we would need it to be to cover the mortgage.
Thanks for your time!
Leah
Posted by: lmk2101 at April 7, 2009 7:41 AM
So is this space an English basement (i.e. are the utilities there, is it below grade?) If so, it may not be a legal apartment at all. You should really look into that before you get a mortgage that depends on rental income.
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at April 7, 2009 9:08 AM
Seems suspicious that there is a kitchen on the garden-level and the seller is claiming the apartment wasn't used as a rental. I wouldn't trust either the seller or your broker to tell you whether or not the apartment is legal. I'd have an inspection done and see if there are obvious concerns/code violations before progressing much further.
Posted by: setancre at April 7, 2009 10:21 AM
I agree- get this fully checked out and as far as I know, you need to methods of egress- so if you close off the egress to the garden, you will still need two doors in and out of the garden apartment. But frankly I can't imagine anyone wanting to live in a dark tunnel. Only 2 windows? I'm not even sure you could make that a legal apartment. In your first post you said something about adding walls and creating a storage room. Are you saying now that you would make that extension another room for the rental?
Good luck with the house but do whatever it takes to protect your investment. Like jfss says- consult an architect who is familiar with this type of structure and you can also do research on the DOB website- but consult an expert.
Posted by: bxgrl at April 7, 2009 10:51 AM
Leah,
You can look on Property Shark or the DOB website for a history of permits on this location. The DOB will also tell you what they think the building's footprint is. Those are both good clues as to whether the extension is legal.
Posted by: serpentor at April 7, 2009 11:21 AM
Seems doubtful that the extension was legal IF the gf was meant to be a rental. If it was specified as storage, it may have passed. Iae, if you're buying the place "as-is" (as I did) ball's in your court and you have to legalize it. Or fix it.
Posted by: cmu at April 7, 2009 11:35 AM
Seems doubtful that the extension was legal IF the gf was meant to be a rental. If it was specified as storage, it may have passed. Iae, if you're buying the place "as-is" (as I did) ball's in your court and you have to legalize it. Or fix it.
Posted by: cmu at April 7, 2009 11:36 AM
I has a similiar problem and I got good advice from a Brownstone specialist who knows about extensions and violations... call CYRUS Woodworking @ 718-469-5425
He did cure my problem.
Posted by: myrnett at April 7, 2009 8:45 PM
Any change in egress must be filed with the DOB. Doubtful this would be approved as it seems it could be needed in an emergency.
steve
Posted by: thetinkerswagon at April 7, 2009 9:14 PM
Thanks everyone! I appreciate you all taking the time to help me out!
Posted by: lmk2101 at April 9, 2009 6:36 PM
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