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April 14, 2009
Ductless A/C Systems vs. Central
My wife and I are pretty much gut renovating a townhouse. The mult-zone ductless A/C systems seem far more affordable than running new duct work through the old house (even though the walls are all open). Can anyone speak to how well they work, if running them is more/less expensive, and just general opinions.
Considering the Friedrich 4-zone (maybe two of them) or a Sanyo version.
Thanks!
Comments
im no expert, but recently worked on a brownstone renovation project using the lg "art cool". They were really amazing, didnt look that bad and seemed to be very energy efficient. I think if you can get over the "look" then they are a no brainer. The hardest part of the installation was making connection to the waste lines for condensation. The indoor units have pumps but the interface with the plumbing risers should be accessible and it basically required some tricky routing. My two cents.
-josh pulver
Posted by: jp2 at April 14, 2009 9:51 AM
i would go with duct work if you have the walls open.
i wanted these ductless ones for my ground floor so that the little windows that are on the ground floor wouldn't be obscured by a window a/c. But with ductless there would have to be a unit in front of the house year round (wouldn't reach to the roof as far as i know) and then the other part of it inside the room year round and i'm not sure i like the look. (and now i hear it needs to be connected to a waste pipe?)
The "art cool" looks kind of cool in a modern way but its a single zone only system i believe.
Posted by: 11211 at April 14, 2009 10:09 AM
Zoned A/C will save you operating $$. These units are a good fit with small buildings such as brownstones because they are easier to integrate into the building and will allow you design flexibility. You will definitely save on ductwork, but as an overall installation, when you include refrigerant piping and condensate drain hookups, the cost is comparable to conventional A/C.
If you are totally gutting, you can insulate front, back, roof, and cellar, and replace the windows. Then you could even install a heat pump with the same air handling system. They are made by the same manufacutrers (Mitsubishi, Daikin, LG, etc.,) and you could save beaucoups.
Posted by: architect66 at April 14, 2009 10:15 AM
Agree it doesn't make sense to use mini systems if you are doing a total gut. I just did a 2000 sft house for 16k, 2 zone separate compressors for each floor. I did end up paying more to put them on the roof, the original plan to put them in the back yard. But the good thing about a ducted system is you don;t have those big ugly air handlers in every room like you do with the mini systems.
Posted by: denton at April 14, 2009 10:27 AM
we just did a gut reno for 2 floors in a brownstone and put 2 split systems one for each floor. we used fujitsu 2 split and 3 split system. works great. the air handles are actually inside the walls and we put a wooden grate in front of it so you don't see it. a bit more expensive but you don't see the small units.
Posted by: justmoved at April 14, 2009 10:46 AM
we just did a gut reno for 2 floors in a brownstone and put 2 split systems one for each floor. we used fujitsu 2 split and 3 split system. works great. the air handles are actually inside the walls and we put a wooden (painted in the wall color) grills in front of it so you don't see it. a bit more expensive but you don't see the small units.
Posted by: justmoved at April 14, 2009 10:47 AM
I've had 3 floors of Mitsubishi "Mr. Slim" units for 5 years. They work very well and inside unit is not magnificent but is really not obtrusive. I love the heat/ac capacity for all year use, and the outside unit out back is extremely quiet and not that big. The problem is installation - I'd use Angie's List instead of Mitsubishi Dealer recommendations.
Posted by: CH11231 at April 15, 2009 4:52 AM
I'm an architect as well and as Architect66 said, the zoned system is the way to go. Both Mitsubishi and Daikin make multi-zoned heat pump systems that are very efficient as well as super quiet. I just installed the Mitsubishi City Multi system with 5 zones in my 3 story with the compressor on the roof. The City Multi is the big brother to the Mr. Slim units. It can handle more zones and has a variety of air handler units that can be concealed within ceilings or walls so you're not stuck with those wall mounted units. Piping distances are not an issue for this system. It's a bit expensive but truly top of the line. Jimmy Wong of Best AC in Queens is the guy to call. He's certified by both Mitsubishi as well as Daikin, does a high quality job, is reasonably priced and really cares.
Posted by: HDL at April 15, 2009 12:23 PM
Hey Justmoved - Like that idea - are your wall units fully recessed (ie are the grills flush with the wall), and how much space did you have to build into the top and bottom? Who did that install for you - I am very interested - the only thing that has stopped me from doing mini split in the past are the butt-ugly wall units...didn't realize you could recess them and still get good airflow.
Posted by: wyckoff at April 15, 2009 2:14 PM
We had a Mr. Slim in our large (>300 sf) kitchen. Our experience was that the Mr. Slim was so powerful that it was uncomfortable and noisy to be near it. This may have been our fault, in that we had a large unit because we were relying on it to cool a lot of space (about 1200 sf including that kitchen). We also had a problem with the pumps that were supposed to eject condensate up to the roof, and had to retrofit to a gravity driven drain system. We built the air handler into a shelf system so it wasn't too noticeable when not in use. When we renovated the entire apartment, we considered a normal ducted system and a high-pressure mini-duct system and went with the normal system. We used Bob Fano for the a/c work and were very happy with him.
Posted by: PresidentStreeter at April 15, 2009 8:06 PM
Is "condensate" water? Could you run it outside to a rainbarrel and use it to water your garden?
Posted by: penandink at April 16, 2009 2:05 PM
Ductless units are much more efficient than conventional ducted systems. The Fujitsu systems go up to a SEER rating of 26 which I believe is the highest you can get ducted or not. There are many great brands out there, but as mentioned above, the installer is just as important as the brand. There are several recessed units available now so you won't see the airhandler mounted on the wall.
Posted by: Todd S at April 16, 2009 10:16 PM
hey wyckoff - yes, they are flush to the wall. walls are white, grill is white and you can't see the A/C (painted inside of box black). we did a gut reno with creative renovation. don't really know re the space.
Posted by: justmoved at April 17, 2009 4:03 PM
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