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March 20, 2009
Garden Party?
My husband and I have been living in a garden apartment in Kensington for three years. When we moved in the outdoor space was completely overrun and a haven for vermin and the adjacent buildings trash. The landlord has been promising to do the work but never got around to it, so we decided to tackle the job. It took three months but now that it is completely cleared out, we have begun adding plants and outdoor furniture.
The problem is that we don’t want our neighbors to back there. We spent a lot of time and money making the garden habitable and aren’t sure how we feel about them benefiting from our hard work.
Is there anyway to keep them out? It is only accessible for other tenants via the fire escape.
Any thoughts?
Comments
You need to check your lease and see if you have exclusive rights. If not I'd speak with your landlord and have him give you exclusive right in exchange for upkeep.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 19, 2009 11:16 AM
I would call or mail a letter to your landlord and explain to them you did all this work and have put time and money into fixing THEIR backyard and in exchange you want them to put in your lease you have exclusive rights to the backyard only!
Posted by: gemini10 at March 19, 2009 11:23 AM
Yes, get exclusive rights in writing from your landlord. They will do it. They don't want the garden trashed again.
Posted by: VF at March 19, 2009 11:40 AM
Are there any laws with regard to having people use fire escapes for anything but egress?
Might be nice to know and keep in your back pocket in case your landlord hems and haws.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 19, 2009 12:07 PM
The lease doesn't mention exclusive rights. So I guess we'll have to call him and hope he's reasonable.
Thanks for the advice!
Posted by: prospectparker409 at March 19, 2009 12:29 PM
You probably should have have thought about talking to the landlord before undertaking this task. Im sure the other tenants are looking out the window and just girding to get in your newly improved space.
I had a very similar situation at my old apartment.
Posted by: newsouthsloper at March 19, 2009 12:43 PM
Seems a bit un-neighborly of you ... I doubt people will climb down the fire escape to hang out down there and it seems like it would be a bit obnoxious to wave around some note from your landlord. If someone wants to use the space when you aren't around, seems to me like you could just tell them that you put a lot of time and effort into the place and that you want them to treat it with respect. Most people will, unless you live in a building with a bunch of drunk college students.
In any case i guess you can be expected to be treated in kind if you are out there making noise past a certain hour or having party, your neighbors could be equally inhospitable.
Posted by: greenwoody at March 19, 2009 1:09 PM
Greenwoody, I understand your point. It isn't our intention to be un-neighborly. But to be fair, we weren't planning on waving around "some note" from our landlord. Please keep in mind that these neighbors are the same people who dumped their trash back there for years and didn't left a finger to help us clean it out.
We're not spending our hard-earned money to beautify a space for their use just so they can ruin it again. If that is inhospitable, then so be it.
Posted by: prospectparker409 at March 19, 2009 1:23 PM
What's the layout? Is the ground floor access through your apartment, or through an adjacent hallway? How big is the yard? and how many apartments are in the building above you? I don't see why the landlord wouldn't give you exclusive access, but he might use it as an excuse to raise the rent (on you or the next tenants).
Posted by: Frederick Law Homestead at March 19, 2009 1:34 PM
I agree with those who say that it is very unlikely someone is climbing down the fire escape to use it. But did you ask for others to help you fix it up? Did you use it as an opportunity to get to know these neighbors? We all make choices about how generous we are going to be with each other, and while you may be a lovely person in person, the impression you are giving in this post is that you aren't so friendly.
That said, I hope it works out for you with the minimum of fuss.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at March 19, 2009 1:59 PM
If my neighbors were tossing garbage into a backyard that I looked out on and my landlord took no steps to rectify the situation I don't know that I'd want to play "getting to know you" either.
They were interested they could have offered to come down and asked if you needed help or resources to fix it up.
It'd be like lending a treasured item to a friend that has proven not to respect the things you've lent them in the past.
Posted by: TownhouseLady at March 19, 2009 2:16 PM
Couple thoughts.
1. Does the fire escape have a retractable ladder? If so can you return it to the retracted position? This is a security enhancement for the building and will discourage folks from casually coming down as well.
2. I think there is some hope that once you have cleaned up the garden decent folks will refrain from littering -- along the line of the "broken window" theory.
3. Could you put some planters at the bottom of the fire escape to discourage casual use?
4. If I thought that folks were tramping through my garden at night I would put in a motion detector on the exterior lights.
Posted by: phripley at March 19, 2009 2:35 PM
I get that - but the whole theory of fixing things up is to encourage them to be maintained at a higher level. Obviously earlier people looked in back yard and thought "garbage dump." Now you want them to look out and say "hey, that's pretty, I'll put my apple core in the garbage can." Seems to me they are more likely to do that if they value the effort put into fixing it up. Otherwise if you come off as stuck-up, they think "who the hell is she and her fancy plants - Johnny hand me that ask tray." But hey, I don't live there, I don't know them. Just sounds like you are setting up a whole us versus them thing which may end badly.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at March 19, 2009 2:35 PM
Is there a precedent for people climbing down there? They might not dare. However, I would agree with TownhouseLady and Gemini10 to talk to the LL, stressing that you're reducing the vermin problem and that you'll keep the noise levels down. Ultimately, you're making the whole building better for all surrounding residents (no more garbage dump to look at), but sadly not everyone values these kind of things. Good luck!
Posted by: meerkatz at March 19, 2009 2:58 PM
What meerkatz says about a precedent for people climbing down there. If they didn't before, I doubt they would start now. If it looks like it belongs to you then I doubt they'll start using it now. Try the "exclusive use" at your peril. You might end up with a shower of garbage if you get your way. Possibly a sign in the lobby regarding the use of the public spaces, roof and fire escape are off limits to tenants. That is normal anyway. It is unlikely that the LL's insurance would cover any accident on the fire escape that wasn't directly related to an actual fire.
Posted by: modsquad at March 19, 2009 3:17 PM
I'm worried that if you make any effort to restrict the use of the space with signs or letters from the landlord, your building mates will spitefully return to tossing garbage in the yard. Look, they were turning their own residence into a garbage dump, they're probably not all that considerate. You don't own the yard, and you improved something you don't own. Something a renter does at his or her own peril. You probably should have made an arrangement with the landlord prior to doing the work. Good luck with this, but in the future be wary of taking care of somebody else's investment without a clear benefit to yourself.
Posted by: lf2009 at March 19, 2009 4:51 PM
One problem I think you'll find is that because the fire escapes are in the back, legally you probably won't be able to restrict access. More likely is that the tenants above probably view the garden as belonging to your apartment anyway but you may also have the problem of how will you deal with tenants who use their fire escapes in the summer to sit outside and enjoy the sun.
It's wonderful to have garden access, but I think you've set up a situation that puts everyone in a difficult position. You made the decision to fix up the garden without qualification, and after the fact have decided to shut your neighbors out. The point is not whether or not they deserve to be kept out, its your timing. And your attitude. I think you've done it in such a way as to create more difficulty than there needed to be and presenting yourself in a not so great light. If you ever had hopes of having at least positive relationships with others who live in your building, you've scotched it, unlesss the landlord can present it in such as way as to make the garden part of your rental space.
That said, I hope your landlord appreciates your hard work and the fact you were willing to do it. It's certainly to his advantage, and you get to enjoy a lovely outdoor space.
Posted by: bxgrl at March 20, 2009 10:36 AM
talk to your landlord, I'm sure he or she will be glad to confirm that the backyard is exclusively yours (especially if you are the only one with a door to leading to it. Everyone always covets outdoor space, but garden floor apartments usually have exclusive rights unless there is a common hallway entrance to the yard. Fire escapes are only to be used in a fire, or if you are hanging out for sun or air on your floor. Insurance liability would also preclude using fire escapes as an access except in case of a fire. And no you cannot put planter underneath the ladder.
I had a similar situation but the yard is my neighbors. He had really bad tenants and there was garbage, etc. etc. We had to remove a tree on his property that was going to fall so we opened the fence to take tree debris down my driveway. I offered to clean the yard and plant so I would have a nice view. and his tenants would have a nice view and it would enhance his property since he was looking to sell. And he agreed I would have exclusive access.
After all the back breaking labor, and the yard was looking good, I started to hear grumbling about how it was not my backyard, and some tenants wanted to have a bar--b-q back there. (even a party to profit them selves!!) The land lord said to call the police and have them arrested for trespass if anyone ever went down there.
Yes there are always people who want to help themselves, after all the work is done and its free. but in this case it seems pretty clear that you are the one with access and I'm sure the landlord doesnt want the yard to revert to its previous condition.
Posted by: tsarina at March 20, 2009 11:41 AM
Whatever the outcome is, good luck! And invite us to your garden parties (especially me, I live in Kensington too!)
Posted by: sixyearsandcounting at March 20, 2009 4:03 PM
If I was your neighbor I would move my futon and flat screen into the garden until told to do otherwise by the landlord.
Posted by: Xander Crews at March 20, 2009 4:47 PM
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