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March 12, 2009
current rents in PS, WT
Rents are dropping Brooklyn, according to all indications. So what can my family expect to pay --we want to rent, not buy --when we return to the beloved borough after a self-imposed exile in the 'burbs? We need two bedrooms in a pet-friendly building in Park Slope, Windsor Terrace, South Slope. We lived in Prospect Heights for years and know these areas well.
We've been monitoring craigslist and the NYT Web pages. How realistic and complete a picture of rents do they present?
We should be, if I do say so myself, ideal tenants: two people well over 40 with very good, long-standing jobs, good credit, easy-going, friendly, helpful, non-smoking --plus our elementary-school daughter, plus dogs. Our dogs (and our daughter!) are good, trained, funny, sweet, gentle, etc. We want to pay less than $2000 -- possible?
Comments
Oh man, I was beginning to like you until that last sentence.
Posted by: modsquad at March 12, 2009 9:15 PM
It was the second to last sentence that did it for me :-)
Posted by: denton at March 12, 2009 9:52 PM
You lost me at 2000.
You can find some 2 bedrooms in South Slope for $2400. They are small, though.
Sounds like WT might be better for you.
Posted by: 11217 at March 12, 2009 11:18 PM
I spent probably 50 hours crawling through craigslist over the last 6 weeks looking for a nicely sized 2br for myself and my girlfriend in either park slope (east of 5th ave, north of 10th st) or cobble hill/carroll gardens.
That area of Park Slope is a nonstarter for a 2br @ $2,000. You can get a decent medium 1br for $2,000. Like 11217 said, $2400 will get you a small 2br near 10th steet.
A larger 2BR in the area of PS I defined above is more like 2700-3000.
I just haven't seen the rents dropping too much in the "prime" areas of brooklyn. BUT, if you are willing to live on 4th avenue you can probably get a great deal.
One last tip, be wary of the "by owner" listings on craigslist. That area is polluted with brokers essentially posting fraudulent bait/switch "no fee" listings of crappy places with jacked up rent. Once you spend some time reading the listings on craigslist you'll get the hang of distinguishing the brokerspeak from actual for-rent by owner places.
If you are going to use a broker just use the nyt real estate search. The bait&switch guys dont seem to list in nyt as much as they do craigslist.
We ended up with a great place in CG for closer to 3,000 than 2,000.
Posted by: jdoo at March 13, 2009 12:15 AM
What about the area between Third Ave. and Fourth Ave., say from about 3rd St. up through the numbered streets? I realize the quality, atmosphere, and desirability varies greatly from street to street, but I would love good info on some of those blocks.
Another question -- if everything in above comments is true, then what am I seeing when I see an ad on craigslist for a 2BR on Seventh Ave. at 1st or 2nd St. for $2000, or even $1995? A complete falsehood? I have seen a 2BR on 11th St. on the list for 1800 -- but no dogs. Are these ads the bait? I suppose apartment seekers are too desperate simply to walk away or hang up the phone or whatever when they call and realize these apts. are not available or even in existence. I mean, obviously the unethical brokers are getting somewhere or they would not continue the bait and switch game.
Thanks for all the comments, Jdoo, especially: it's good to know the bad brokers don't usually bother with NYT.
Posted by: cpchkp at March 13, 2009 5:30 AM
As the weather gets nicer you can walk throgh the blocks and look for "For Rent" signs posted by owners in windows. I see alot popping up in Carroll Gardens and Park Slope lately. I am sure as the housing prices come down and foreclosures increase day bt day you will see more of them. I think homeowners are tired of doing business with blood sucking vermines like real estate brokers. Keep in mind there are some honest real estate brokers but you think the worst kind do business in Carroll Gardens and Park Slope. I am glad to see that people that are selling in these areas are using a diverse number of agents from all over New York.Some competition to break the Monopoly!
Posted by: hannible at March 13, 2009 7:01 AM
always check with http://www.rentometer.com/ to see if you are paying a good price :).
Posted by: armchairwarrior at March 13, 2009 8:51 AM
"what am I seeing when I see an ad on craigslist for a 2BR on Seventh Ave. at 1st or 2nd St. for $2000, or even $1995? A complete falsehood?"
Posted by: cpchkp at March 13, 2009 5:30 AM
It's either a falsehood/bait-n-switch kind of thing or a tiny, dark, apartment that you wouldn't want to pay $1,000 for.
A legit nice sized 2 bed, in the areas you are looking at, that takes multiple dogs would be gone within minutes at $2,000. The ad would never make it to Craigslist.
Posted by: christopher at March 13, 2009 9:15 AM
2k and a place that's ok for dogs and a nice area is going to be rough. You probably disqualify yourself to 80% of landlords with the dogs.
Posted by: Bklnite at March 13, 2009 9:25 AM
Just a suggetion You can easily get a 2 bedroom with outdoor space in for less than 2K in Bay Ridge or Sunet Park or probably another part of Brooklyn for that matter.
Posted by: italiana71 at March 13, 2009 9:49 AM
for instance
I own between 6th and 7th close to 14th street in a 4 story building
it's a double duplex. So, my rental apt has 2 solid size bedrooms with w/d/dw, 1.5 baths and your own little patio with access to the backyard
$2800
I agree you will be hard pressed to find a 2 br for 2000 in prime park slope - south slope is going for about $2500 for a 2 BR that may not have that many amenities
Posted by: gemini10 at March 13, 2009 9:53 AM
Wow -- thanks to all for generously commenting. Very helpful.
Can anyone comment on the Cortelyou Road vicinity? I have always liked Cortelyou, but more so now that the Flatbush Food Coop has expanded and there are decent restaurants, coffee shops, etc. there. To me, this would be a good second choice after PS, PS South and WT-near-PS are written off as impossible.
Also, what about Cortelyou/Ditmas versus Bay Ridge?
Oh, for the days when I first moved to PH -- found an ad in the Village Voice, pre-Internet days, and met the owner of the nice brownstone in person.
Posted by: cpchkp at March 13, 2009 10:28 AM
have you thought about moving back PH the gentrified areas are like park slope for lower prices.
Posted by: armchairwarrior at March 13, 2009 10:32 AM
I agree...PH is terrific, although even there a 2 bedroom which accepts dogs for 2K might be tough.
Check it out though. It's certainly a lot more convenient (if you commute to Manhattan) than the Cortelyou area (even though it is very nice also).
Vanderbilt has become such a nice strip.
Posted by: 11217 at March 13, 2009 10:45 AM
11217 and armchairwarrior -- and others --
Yes, I LOVE PH. I lived for many years just off Vanderbilt. But the twist in all this is our second-grader. We will send her to public school. What about the public schools in PH? I am so hell-bent on PS and PSS, at least in theory, because of the good schools. WT has a good school. Bay Ridge has at least one good one. I do not know the school for Dimas/Cortelyou, but I have heard very mixed comments about PH's elementary schools.
Comments on Prospect Heights' elementary schools? Ditmas Park and specifically the areas close to Cortelyou?
Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?
Posted by: cpchkp at March 13, 2009 11:23 AM
If I were you, I'd zero in on South Slope, find a place you like for $2400 (ish) and try to negotiate as close to $2000 as possible.
In this market, you have the upper hand.
Even in Park Slope.
Posted by: 11217 at March 13, 2009 11:28 AM
the schools don't make the kids, the kids make the schools.
if a area gets enough good kids, the schools would be highly rated ;).
Posted by: armchairwarrior at March 13, 2009 11:28 AM
I've been looking into the same school issues. Schools in PH are not so good right now, but there are some very involved parents trying to turn things around. Still, it will be a while before they get better. I think this is part of the reason why rents are cheaper in PH.
I don't know much about the schools in the Cortelyou area, but it's definitely a pretty area with some great restaurants. A trek to get anywhere else (not an easy walk to PS like WT is), though.
Posted by: ATerrell at March 13, 2009 11:50 AM
I live in Ditmas just off Courtelyou, love the area, great for kids, though I'm not up on the schools just yet. I think a 2BR is doable at around 2K.
Posted by: mh at March 13, 2009 12:44 PM
Thanks to all. This info has been helpful, and the civility and generosity of the posters has been truly encouraging. The Internet can be a place without mercy, as we all know.
I have posted on other forums, asking sincere questions, and gotten absolutely insulted and skewered for being naive, stubborn or whatever. This experience has been a pleasure, and just reinforces why I am coming back to Brooklyn. (That other forum was in Maplewood, NJ, when I was considering, a couple of years ago, for a short time, moving there!!!!!! Never.)
Posted by: cpchkp at March 13, 2009 1:01 PM
Greenwood/south south slope has an excellent school on 18th Street and 6th ave, and has rents close to what you are looking for. Check it out-
Posted by: Park Place at March 13, 2009 1:24 PM
I have to second the bit of advice about brokers posing as owners on CL, and add: They are unlicensed. They want untraceable money, no contracts, and sometimes no key. So the danger of going with them is not merely the broker's fee. If you do go through a broker, use an old-fashioned one with a storefront in the neighborhood that's been in business for years.
Posted by: mopar at March 13, 2009 1:47 PM
cpchkp,
Here's an example of a 2br for $2000 on 8th ave and 15st in the south slope. 8th ave is a pretty busy/noisy street.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/1073353600.html
The "## Listed By: No fee==by owner==no fee" at the bottom does set off a 'condition yellow' on my broker-bs-o-meter, but the posting seems legit enough that I would check it out if i was looking in this price range and location. Please note I have no connection to the poster of this listing and am in no way endorsing the listing, just thought I'd provide a datapoint for you.
For what its worth, this one raises all kinds of red flags in my mind: http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/1073242638.html
Posted by: jdoo at March 13, 2009 2:13 PM
#
# Fee Disclosure: $25 APPLICATION FEE PER PERSON APPLYING FOR THIS
who charges that ? its not even a credit check.
Posted by: armchairwarrior at March 13, 2009 2:44 PM
Since you asked about the blocks between 3rd and 4th Ave and since you say schools are an issue, word of warning: blocks west of 4th Ave are not zoned for Park Slope schools. (There are a couple technical exceptions, but they're blocks with no residential buildings.)
You want cheap and good schools in Brooklyn--try Bay Ridge. Though I don't have firsthand experience of the rents there.
Posted by: basementalist at March 13, 2009 3:41 PM
I moved from Park Slope to Bay Ridge primarly for the schools. We have two children so that was most important for us. best schools are ps 185 which scroes as good as ps 321, and ps 102. I know my friend is renting a two bedroom for 1500 a month so that's about the average. By the way, she rented through the owner and her rent has been that much for 4 years!!!
There are tons of resturants to choose from, grocery stores are ok but we are in the middle of forming a food coop. (I'm currently on the comittee to get it formed). Green Market starts gain in the spring so that's also a great option. Its a really diverse nabe and lots of young families moving here which makes for good times at the numerous parks here.
Good luck with your search for an apt!!!
Posted by: italiana71 at March 13, 2009 4:47 PM
I don't mean to be a jerk, but it doesn't sound like you make enough money to be moving back to the city with ogs and a kid. Of course, it's possible, but you'll likely have to settle on something that isn't very nice.
Why not move to a cheaper city like Chicago or Seattle? I understand the draw of NYC if you're young and starting out, but moving into a tiny apartment with a child and likely a long subway commute doesn't sound too enticing to me.
You can get some incredible deals in South Florida right now, though find a job would be tough.
Posted by: IronBalls at March 14, 2009 3:46 AM
Thanks for the comments, especially Italiana71 for the helpful insights into Bay Ridge, which I admittedly used to believe not a desirable option. But I, too, have friends who moved there recently -- young-ish families, a single woman, etc. I am glad to know the specific schools that are good there.
Ironballs, how can you tell how much money I make? And very funny about Chicago, Seattle or South Florida! And I can see that you did not read my original post carefully.
We are not just starting out. We're both over 40 with jobs in NYC, and lived in Brooklyn for many years. We left in 2004 for the 'burbs. We've decided to ***return*** to Brooklyn, which we never really left in many ways, because we go back so often for various reasons, and to which we still feel very connected.
As for the amount we want to pay in rent: we want to keep our rent down because we have other expenses.
Posted by: cpchkp at March 14, 2009 5:39 PM
you might want to spend some time on www.insideschools.org to explore ratings of different schools.
Posted by: Rookie at March 16, 2009 11:42 PM
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