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February 26, 2009
Should seller remove wallpaper?
We just made an offer on pre-war co-op that is carpeted throughout and has dramatic (!!!) wallpaper in every room. Sellers accepted the offer instantly. No papers have been signed yet. As part of the negotiation of terms, is it reasonable to ask the sellers to agree to deliver the apartment free of wallpaper and carpet? Or is it at all reasonable to negotiate a slightly lower price at this point to take into account the cost of removal? Should we have taken this into account before we made the offer and now we should just suck it up? There is no way to tell the condition of the floors under the carpet, and it will take a fair amount of work to remove all the wallpaper from this 920 sq ft apt. We are first time co-op buyers and friends have told us that there is room for negotiation even after an offer is accepted.
We don't want to lose an opportunity to ask for something that we might be able to get, but we don't want to be obnoxious either!
Thanks very much for any advice.
Comments
The wallpaper and carpet were readily visible prior to your offer and you should have been taken that into consideration before making it.
If I were the owners and you tried negotiating price based on their removal at this point, I would view you with great suspicion and think that this was just the first of many things you were going to continue to push get out of me. I would not tear apart my home (which I obviously like) and be stuck with a mess if you back out of the deal before closing.
It is all verbal at this point so there's nothing legally stopping you from negotiating. They can say yes or no.
Posted by: jfss at February 26, 2009 6:34 PM
You havent signed anything; you are not bound. You can take the approach of claiming ignorance - and bring it up before you go to contract, but you risk the seller balking. Its unlikely the seller will agree to do it for you. Depends on levarage - if they seem really eager then they will probably give you a grand or so credit and have you deal with it. I doubt they will trash the deal over it - they might likely say no.
Posted by: saminthehood at February 26, 2009 7:38 PM
I think its legitimate to want to know if the floors under the rugs are dammaged or not. the wallpaper is more iffy but chances are wallpaper would be affected by anything that damages the walls so would be more visible than damaged floors under carpet would be.
Posted by: bxgrl at February 27, 2009 12:16 AM
Forget about the wallpaper. If you didn't like it, you should have factored your cost of removal into the bid.
As for under the carpets, ask that furniture be moved so you can pull up sections during the inspection and see the condition of the floor underneath. Finding previously concealed damage is definitely a proper subject for negotiation after coming to terms on price. If you don't like the style, but the condition is fine, there's really no reason to expect a concession.
Posted by: slopefarm at February 27, 2009 9:04 AM
The floors are fair game for inspection. The wallpaper issues were visible before you decided to make the offer.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 27, 2009 9:43 AM
You should definitely ask that a portion or several portions of the rug be pulled back so the inspection can be done. As for the wallpaper, it depends on how old the walls are. The reason for this is that if the co-op is as old as you say, and the walls are the original ones, when you remove the wallpaper, the walls may crumble behind it. Wallpaper does not allow the wall to breath and can adversely affect them over time. My friend had the same problem when they purchased their house 13 years ago and had to replace a large portion of the walls in the house. The purchase price was significantly lower than today so it was still worth it. I would ask that the inspector check the condition of the walls during his/her inspection. While replacing walls is not necessarily expensive, it is time consuming and very dusty. Good luck.
Posted by: marcy at February 27, 2009 10:16 AM
Wallpaper and carpet are the least of your problems. No, you can't ask for a discount for them. You should get an inspection and you should be sure to look under the carpet during the inspection. You should request a discount for any problems (actual problems, not just boilerplate bs) the inspection reveals.
Be aware that stripping wallpaper is time consuming, tedious, expensive, and you may have to replaster every wall under the paper. But you can also just paint over it.
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 3:22 PM
Until you sign on the line that is dotted, you can negotiate. However, unless an inspection raised issues that didn't occur to you (like that there may be water damage behind the wallpaper or under the carpeting) it just isn't negotiating in good faith to add a lot of "Oh! And you need to ..." into the negotiation.
More to the point, your cards are kind of on the table now. If I were the seller I'd just say "No. We accepted your offer. If you want to change your offer, we want to go look at our other offers."
If an inspection made you aware of issues that you didn't know to be looking for, that is different. But if you're just feeling like they accepted your offer too quickly and maybe you should have low balled them more, that is different.
Posted by: serpentor at February 27, 2009 3:23 PM
inlude the carpet removal in the contract or negotiate a slightly lower sale price at the closing thru your lawer.
don't give up there is always a way.
Posted by: Ysabelle at February 27, 2009 3:37 PM
This comment would be a whole lot more useful if I could remember the brand name, but I once applied a liquid to some old wallpaper and after letting it soak for the recommended time, it pulled right off the wall. I had tried all sorts of methods in the past and when I saw it work, I said to myself, "where have you been all my life?"
Posted by: altervoce at February 27, 2009 4:16 PM
I think the comment about the floor being fair game for inspection is valid. I suspect you'll find that there are a lot of tiny holes where the nailers for the carpet go, and that the floors may not be salvageable even if they could be sanded. That's the case in our living room, and we're just, well, living with wall to wall there.
But if you have the stomach for it, in this climate, you could ask for a lower price based on wallpaper removal. I wouldn't, though, as real estate karma is not to be trifled with.
Posted by: Bolder at February 27, 2009 4:50 PM
Bolder, can't you fill those holes with wood filler in a color that will blend in with the wood? Aren't you being crazy picky?
Posted by: mopar at February 27, 2009 6:27 PM
As my father always said, "It can't hurt to ask."
Posted by: BrooklynBear at February 27, 2009 6:52 PM
there are a million ways to re-negotiate. have you read the by laws, board minutes see the budget and the issues of the co-op? everything is negotiable. in this market, unless you are borderline obnoxious you are probably paying way too much. i have seen one or two offering places out of a hundred in the past year i would say were reasonable.
indeed, since you knew about the wallpaper and carpet, it seems like you are second guessing the fast acceptance of your bid. as a first time (read: gullible) buyer and the nature of your question, i wouldn't hesitate to guess you are. for the last year i have been wondering what morons have been paying the prices that have been reported. after seeing a lot of the comments on this board, it is becoming evident. realize there are a lot of people entwined with the RE market on this board who don't like remorseful bidders. i will admit i know a lot of people have been bidding out of curiosity and walking away (like ebay) when accepted. however, because of the huge gulf between asking and selling prices, this does not bother me as it is like most other assets today. don't be stupid - re-negotiate until they are willing to walk away. even then you are likely to be only modestly overpaying imho you have to be willing to walk away right now. we are in a free-fall.
Posted by: invisible at February 27, 2009 11:41 PM
Oh wait, sorry, this is a coop. I didn't realize. Sure, go to town on the wallpaper and carpet. The coop is responsible for everything that matters.
Posted by: mopar at February 28, 2009 12:02 AM
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