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February 14, 2009
Programmable Thermostat....
Hello all,
After installing our new steam boiler in a 4-story brownstone the heat isn't reaching the top floor. I have Honeywell Pro TH4000 Series programmable but it isn’t ideal for a 4-story steam unit.
My situation:
1) The thermostat is on the 1st floor, shutting off too soon for sufficient pressure to build to reach 4thfloor. Of course the 1st floor warms faster and kicks it off.
2) I don't want to replace the valves as they are in working order.
3) The unit 'trickles' heat all day, off & on, off & on, but only heats the bottom 2 floors, which is an inefficient waste of gas.
4) When the thermostat’s programmed ‘RETURN’ and ‘WAKE’ settings kick in, of course the temperature variance between the current and setting are significant enough to cause the boiler to run 30 minutes, reaching the 4th FL.
What I NEED:
I want a thermostat that can be programmed to cycle every 3 (winter) or 4 (fall/spring) hours. Meaning, it only checks the temp every 3 - 4 hours so that the temperature difference between the current and 'setting' is allowed to separate enough to run the boiler for 20 or 30 minutes, thereby reaching the 4th FL. This would easily save sufficient heating expense and appease those upstairs. Also, it would provide better heating as if the unit runs 20 –30 minutes ALL the pipes and radiators heat up, thereby sustaining warmer floors for longer periods of time.
Any recommendations on a programmable thermostat; model/make?
Thank you!
Comments
I have the Honeywell Vision Pro 8000. Not sure about your but old Honeywell thermostat and the current one, I can set the CPH. The manual said to set to 1 CPH for steam. Mine is set to 2. I feel this gives me a more comfort control.
Posted by: zuffy at February 14, 2009 8:32 PM
You Need a Heat Timer. Maybe 3K to 4K
Posted by: mod squad at February 14, 2009 11:48 PM
you can try changing the vents on the 4th floor radiators to ones with larger orifices. Also, put smaller orifice vents closer to the boiler and in the room where the thermostat is located.
Feel free to call me if you have questions.
Steve
thetinkerswagon.com
347-813-9635
Posted by: thetinkerswagon at February 15, 2009 12:27 AM
What you're asking for is not the answer to your problem. That's not how steam works. It sounds to me like you've got one of two problems:
1. You just had a bad installation.
2. You need a system balancing.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at February 15, 2009 8:36 AM
Before changing the thermostat, I would look at the radiator vents. The vents on the top floor should have larger orifices. the vents on the lower floors should have smaller orifices. also, experimenting with the vent size in the room with the thermostat will impact this. This is an inexpensive effort that should be done prior to changing the thermostat.
One other thing. there is a pressure setting on the boiler. That can be raised and the boiler will run until the pressure is a little higher - pushing steam further. this is something a boilerperson should do (not me or you).
If you have any questions or need help with the vents, please feel free to look at my website:
thetinkerswagon.com
You may call me, my number is in the website.
Steve
Posted by: stepkocym at February 15, 2009 9:06 AM
In addition to adjusting the size of the vents (I did this in a three story building and it made a tremendous difference) you can also get a thermostat with a remote sensor. This way the boiler will not shut off until the correct temp is reached in the location of the sensor - which should be on the top floor in a room that does not get direct sunlight.
Posted by: JoeBushwick at February 15, 2009 6:33 PM
if the heat is "trickling" all day, that probably means that the boiler is short cycling and will end up running up a huge gas valve...it sounds like, as mp said, a bad installation of probably an oversize boiler (your installer probably read the btu rating on the old boiler and replaced it with the same size instead of running a heating calculation}...do not raise the pressure setting, a steam boiler should run at about half a pound pressure.. get a heating professional to balance the system, including checking any and all steam vents on all floors, correcting the problem, instead of attempting a patchwork approach with the thermostat
Posted by: eman1234 at February 16, 2009 3:43 PM
that should have been "huge gas bill"..oops
Posted by: eman1234 at February 16, 2009 4:23 PM
I agree with eman, do NOT raise the pressure in the system...this will not PUSH the steam faster through the system. Balancing will definitely help (distance from the radiator is important in vent size, as well as radiator size)...aside from changing the air valves for size, you can try to install a non-electric thermostatic air vent valve in place of the existing air valves in the hotter rooms. This can help to lessen the heat to the radiators, but will allow you to increase it again if needed. This is a safe way to "regulate" heat in a one pipe steam system. A proper heat calculation of the existing radiation will let you know if the boiler is too big. Do you know if this was done before the new installation?
Posted by: Brooklyn Plumber at February 24, 2009 9:47 PM
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