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February 2, 2009
Landmark Window DRAMA!
I just had windows replaced in my landmarked brownstone and (due to a neighbor's tip) rec'd a DOB violation for not having Landmark approval. Has this happened to anyone else? My new windows are vinyl and I hear this isn't a favorite of the LPC. Any chance of them allowing me to keep them? Can their decisions be challenged? Are there any cheap alternatives to having the new windows completely taken out and replaced (again!!)?
Thanks to anyone with advice.
Comments
Seems like you are up the proverbial excremental stream without a hand-held water lever. A quick google search got me to http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/working_with/working_with.shtml
which would seem to be a good place to start.
I am trying to be very non-judgmental (glass houses and all that), but it probably wasn't worth the risk of doing such an extensive and visible renovation with proper permits. Vinyl windows have a way of pissing neighbors off in a landmark district. Your facade reflects on your neighbors as well. I am surprised that the contractor was willing to put the windows in - was he or she licensed?
Perhaps others have some thoughts on how to dig yourself out of this.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at January 31, 2009 7:49 AM
I second the first comment... creek, no paddle...
My experience with this is if Landmarks doesn't approve it has to come out.
We replaced windows in the front, had to get Landmarks approved frames. The back of the building doesn't matter. Landmarks is most concerned with what can be seen from the street.
Pull the windows out, save them for when you need to replace the rear windows (assuming they are the same size) and get new, Landmarked approved frames/glass.
Posted by: christopher at January 31, 2009 10:27 AM
bootsey, The Landmarks Preservation Commission offers grants for facade work and I believe that includes windows. The Landmarks Conservancy offers loans. Work with them and take advantage of the help.
Posted by: Susan Elkins at January 31, 2009 10:39 AM
I'm replacing windows in a building at Union Square and Landmarks has given permission to use aluminum in an approved color. Not sure what they would do in Brownstone Brooklyn. The only glimmer is that a Landmarks violation carries no weight until you apply for another building permit, then you go to Landmarks on bended knee and promise you'll fix the windows at the same time you're putting in an above ground pool.
Posted by: modsquad at January 31, 2009 11:58 AM
I would be very weary of the Landmarks Preservation Commission. They will in fact give you money, but you have to sign an agreement saying you will never alter the facade of the house that you will have to sell with the house when you decide to move out. In my opinion, this is not worth any amount of money.
Posted by: SJ at January 31, 2009 3:20 PM
landmarks does not play! they like their authority.
Posted by: dexpediter at January 31, 2009 7:31 PM
you are hosed. expect to shell out $15-20K to sort this one out, depending on the size of your house.
Posted by: plgdude at February 2, 2009 10:20 AM
"plgdude": what would the $15-20K be for? the house is a 2 fam brownstone.
Thanks to everyone else that has also responded.
Posted by: bootsey78 at February 2, 2009 10:24 AM
I'm guessing 11 windows then, so maybe only $10k. The parlor floor windows can be $1200 to $1500 a pop and the rest $700 or $800.
Posted by: plgdude at February 2, 2009 10:29 AM
There's a big difference between the Landmarks Preservation Commission (http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/home/home.shtml), to whom you should have applied for permits and to whom you now have to answer, and the Landmarks Conservancy (http://www.nylandmarks.org/), which does give grants and technical assistance. NHS of NY (http://www.nhsnyc.org/) also provides low-cost loans for a variety of home repairs.
Posted by: vinca at February 2, 2009 10:39 AM
Thanks vince and plgdude. I look up the conservancy info also.
Posted by: bootsey78 at February 2, 2009 10:51 AM
You say a DOB violation - are you sure its not an LPC violation? You may have both, if you didn't have a DOB permit for the work either (though I'm not sure if window replacement requires a DOB permit).
You will need to legalize this - either by installing windows that meet LPC rules or by going to a public hearing and getting the commission to legalize the vinyl windows. The latter won't happen, so save yourself the time and money and apply for a permit to install windows that meet the rule.
You can find the LPC rules on their website. They'll tell you what kind of windows can be installed in what kind of building.
Who did the window installation? Did they pull permits, or try to get away with something?
Posted by: WBer at February 2, 2009 11:01 AM
Thanks wber. Yes it was a DOB violation for not having landmarks permit.
Posted by: bootsey78 at February 2, 2009 11:43 AM
Where permits are necessary, and LPC permit required, DOB requires an LPC permit before they'll issue one of their own.
Posted by: vinca at February 2, 2009 11:47 AM
We just replaced eight front-facing windows on our house on a landmarked block. They were about $2,000 per, plus we paid the contractor to do the landmarks filing. Steven James Contracting did a professional job, and everybody was pleasant to deal with.
Honestly, why did you try to skirt Landmarks? How did you not know you had to get approved windows put in?
Posted by: Brooklyn Chicken at February 2, 2009 12:34 PM
If the violation you got was from DOB, you can expect a violation from LPC as well. It may not happen for years, but if so, its bound to happen at an inopportune time.
Posted by: WBer at February 2, 2009 1:09 PM
Thanks for the referral brooklyn_chicken. Acutally the house has been mine for all of 3 months and the area has been landmarked for longer than I've been alive. So it wasn't a matter of skirting landmarks, it was a matter of not being informed.
Posted by: bootsey78 at February 2, 2009 2:09 PM
Does LPC give violations. I thought DOB did their dirty work
Posted by: Troy McClure at February 2, 2009 2:46 PM
Is one allowed to put in white vinyl windows on a landmarked brownstone?
There is a reno going on on my block which just put in new white windows and it looks horrible. I see no other houses on the block with white windows.
I'm not one to call and report it, but it really does look bad.
Posted by: 11217 at February 2, 2009 3:12 PM
The Landmark Preservation Commission's long-existing workguide is available at this link (see pages 29-31 for Windows):
http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/pubs/workguide.pdf
A newer and more extensive rulebook is available at (see Chapter 3, pages 45-59
for Windows): http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/pubs/rules.pdf
Posted by: vinca at February 2, 2009 6:39 PM
SJ you are totally confused. The LPC is a city agency and does not give out money. You are referring to an architectural trust where you donate your facade to a private company in exchange for tax benefits. I think it was National Architectural Trust that has been hard selling lately. I agree - bad idea.
Posted by: jfss at February 2, 2009 7:18 PM
i know someone in a very NON landmarked area
currently they have about 20 vinyl windows, some fall open or are leaky, don't lock, etc. They are about to replace all 20 so they all match.
Vinyl is the cheapest right? Seems people are recommending fiberglass? how much more is fiberglass, it sounds good but if its double the price...
Posted by: 11211 at February 3, 2009 3:32 PM
I am looking to replace all windows front and back on our brownstone. Do we need an architect to get the permit? Or can I get one myself? The back windows are partially visible from the avenue behind us if you look very closely. Do you think we can get away with vinyl in the back. Any suggestions on approved window companies? Thanks!
Posted by: lizzyman1 at July 11, 2009 7:27 PM
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