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February 2, 2009
$600 Gas Bill Normal?
Is a $600 gas bill normal for January? We purchased a brownstone this fall, and this is our first winter owning it. The garden floor is occupied, but the owner's duplex is empty until our reno is complete. Heat is steam radiators with a Weil boiler at the end of its useful life. I'm wondering how much savings I'd see with either a new boiler or better insulation, or whether this is just what it costs to heat a 3-story hundred-year old house. Advice appreciated!
Comments
In our corner building we have 4.5 stories + cellar, for a total of about 4,000 sf. We have paid between $700 and $800 per month for the last two months. Our thermostat is set at 68 degrees. We are in the process of getting bids to better weatherproof the drafty front and understoop doors as well as the cellar sidewalk gate. Hope this helps.
Posted by: Bessie at February 2, 2009 12:44 PM
check post 'cost ofmonthly heating' 5-6 days ago
Posted by: cmu at February 2, 2009 12:59 PM
If you're heating the non-occupied space as well, would seem comparable to my 3-story. Deductible when you've got your tenants in but one of the downsides of owning a brownstone I admit.
Posted by: Johnny at February 2, 2009 1:21 PM
I have a six unit, 3 story, about 4600 sf total, and it only cost about 300 last month for the entire building. I feel like the bill you paid was way too high but maybe I'm just lucky. My building is 105 years old.
Posted by: EnglishKills at February 2, 2009 1:36 PM
I don't think Johnny's quite right. Check with your accountant. You may be able to offset costs associated with a rental unit even if a tenant is not yet in. If you are working on a rental unit in order to rent it out later, the renovation costs and carrying costs may be chargeable against income. You may not realize the costs until you have rental income, but keep good track of them all the same.
Posted by: slopefarm at February 2, 2009 1:38 PM
you should consider paying a flat monthly all year long. also, insulate every wall and get the best windows you can afford.
Posted by: wine lover at February 2, 2009 1:45 PM
slopefarm...those costs can be added into the capital base but they are not chargable against income unbtil there is rental income.
I haven't checked with my accountant yet(2008 was my first rental year) but I'm pretty sure that if your income is above $150,000 you can't charge off the accounting losses against it (there would be an accounting loss after mortgage and depreciation). I don't think the $150k threshold has changed is what I'm saying.
I will post my gas bills for last year if i remember to look them up when I go home tonight. Mine is 2,500 sq. ft. My Jan bill was $230 and Dec was $212.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 2, 2009 1:46 PM
Our gas bill is about $100 a month just for non-heating (cooking gas for two apts. plus two driers) in our 4 story brownstone and oil is around $500 per month during the winter season, so I would think what you're paying is not out of line.
Posted by: newsloper06 at February 2, 2009 1:47 PM
DIBS,
Your understanding is the same as mine (it is what we did) and, now that I reread Johnny, he was saying the same thing. I just didn't want OP to think that the heating costs were not deductible at all, which was what I misread johnny to say. Sorry, johnny. OP, hope this is all clear to you now.
Posted by: slopefarm at February 2, 2009 1:57 PM
Dave:
I just checked with a tax accountant:
The carrying cost of a multiple family house (heating) is deductible. When the house is new and you are preparing it for rental it is deductible. The same is true when you are between tenants.
You would only have a problem if you were to deduct the carrying costs and then fail to rent the unit for a unreasonably long period of time.
Posted by: SenatorStreet at February 2, 2009 2:05 PM
I stand corrected. Reasonable expenses to prepare the place for rental would, I believe, be kosher deductions in some way, shape or form.
Posted by: Johnny at February 2, 2009 2:15 PM
we have a brownstone in harlem - a rental duplex on the top two floors and a owners triplex (parlor floor, basement/ground floor and finished cellar). The rental pays for their own heat. The gas bill received on Friday was $600 but it was estminated. The last bill was a little over $500 when they read the meter. Our house was a gut rehab, so we have new boilers, insulation etc. the ceilings on the parlor floor are 12 feet. In total, our unit is approx. 2,500 sf (not including rental). The house was built in 1901.
Get your accountant on the case. We used to do our own taxes until we hired someone and realized we weren't realizing all the tax benefits. Our rental was vacant for a few months and I know that our accountant deducted something...
Posted by: harlem123 at February 2, 2009 2:17 PM
We have a 4 story 20' wide brownstone: two kitchens (all gas) and one shared laundry room (gas dryer). Furnace and hot water are gas. Our last bill was for 365 therms used = $592.25. this winter has been brutal - I think your bill is right on target.
Posted by: parkslopemom at February 2, 2009 3:01 PM
I agree with those who say it sounds about right. My most recent gas bill for a 4-story, 25'x40' house (32 days, late Dec-late Jan) is $655. That's heat and hot water; actual, not estimated. The tenants who control the thermostat seem to keep the place pretty hot, unfortunately, but I'm not there to keep pushing it back down.
Posted by: casacara at February 2, 2009 4:22 PM
My house is 3200 sqf and we have been paying about 350-400 per month on gas heat.
Posted by: wasder at February 2, 2009 4:24 PM
I paid about $1,700 for the gas that runs the furnace and the hot water heater from Oct 2007 to Nov 2008. Gas in my own unit for the stove was less than $300. Its a gas forced air system kept at 66-71 degrees, 2,500 sq. ft. 3 storey building with thermal pane windows, front & rear.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 2, 2009 6:22 PM
I also had my crawl space between the top floor ceiling and the roof insulated but that was done late last winter. I expect to pay less in gas this year. I noticed the change immediately after the insulation was blown in.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at February 2, 2009 6:46 PM
Bessie,
whom have you gotten quotes from for weatherproof the drafty front doors? I need to get this done as well and have no idea who handles stuff like that.
thanks
Posted by: paspar2 at February 3, 2009 12:41 PM
FWIW my gas bill for January, which I received this morning, was $428.74. That's for a three story,one family, house, with a hot air furnace, gas water heater, gas dryer, and gas stove.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at February 4, 2009 8:57 AM
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