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February 19, 2009
Appropriate Renov. 4 rental unit
Thanks for the feedback on the mkt rental rates on my Crown Heights N. apt. Now, looking for input on what's appropriate / sensible level of Kitchen & Bath renovations for the unit. It's easy decision if I was living there - ie do whatever I want that's within the budget. A little different & more difficult when the renov budget is smaller for rental purposes. Always found the generic "rental grade" kitchen & baths range from boring to an eye sore. Should I paint the existing oak kitchen cabinets or replace them with something from Ikea? is laminate countertop (maybe something better than the generic beige / white ones) good enough? White / beige appliances? what's solid & practical washer / dryer unit (gas one; in case these old bldg's electrical cant handle too much electrical consumption)? Dishwasher vs a big deep sink? Shower curtain vs. sliding glass dr? pedestal vs. cabinet sink? Another key question is what is too much $$$ to spend renovating kitchen (12 x 9) and bath (5 x 10). Want to get unit to be better than the usual rental grade stuff so I can attract & retain good tenants but I worry going overboard (ie I forget I'm not renovating for me to live there) & over investing
Comments
From what I remember of your previous post, your apartment sounded very large and beautiful. Honestly, unless its condition is a complete handyman special, I would put a fresh coat of paint on it, make sure all the tiles are grouted and appliances working properly, and get it on the market and rented. I think MontroseMorris offered to come take a look, and from her posts I can only imagine how valuable it would be to get her on-site, in-person feedback. And while realtors get dogged (now more than ever), you still might benefit from bringing one or more in to view your apartment, and consider their feedback on what needs fixing or upgrading. Beyond that, and beyond any hesitance you have to even temporarily part with living in this apartment, it's just not a good time to let it sit empty or to lose time and funds revising it.
Posted by: vinca at February 19, 2009 2:04 PM
Are the kitchen and bath clean and functional? Leave them be.
Posted by: mopar at February 19, 2009 2:23 PM
I think landlords forget how annoying it is living without a dishwasher, especially if a couple or family rents the apartment. It means spending 45 minutes cleaning up after dinner, as opposed to 20. Also, for what it's worth, here's my vote on the remainder of your questions: (a) just paint the cabinets white and a laminate counter is fine; (b) shower curtain (those glass doors get so crusty and gross); and (c) cabinet sinks provide much needed storage. I'm more willing to rent a place if I see the landlord has considered the tenants concerns, too.
Posted by: talknerdytome at February 19, 2009 3:26 PM
The aptmt is in good condition but I would still label it "estate" condition - everything is functional, clean, solid, etc but outdated (ie need to refinish the flrs, painting walls, etc.). The details, flrs, walls, etc are all fine. The Kitchen needs some work though. The stove looks "vintage" to me. The bathrm is OK but could benefit from some freshening up. Without going crazy on the budget, do want to get the place to be above "rental grade" - ie I wasnt planning on being a landlord so anything I can do to limit tenant turnover the better.
The unit comes with a 8x10 (maybe bigger) sectioned & closed off storage area in the dry basement. Do landlords normally charge add'l for this (or freebie w/ rent)? It has some storage shelving already and was thinking if I should or need to do any renov on it.
Vinca, too late on financial bleed on this. I've bought the unit, left vacant, and paid the bills for over a yr already (just couldn't accept easily not being able to live there, etc). Guess with the constant stk mkt beatings, this cash outflow felt like an itch in comparison during this past yr but it's time to stop the bleeding.
Montrose, if you see an Asian guy near the bldg this Sat afternoon, that would be me dropping by to pick up mail, walk through the place to plan out the renov, etc. Dont hesitate to shout "more4less"
Posted by: more4less at February 19, 2009 3:45 PM
Personally, a vintage stove would be a huge plus to me. Same with original old cupboards.
Posted by: mopar at February 19, 2009 6:24 PM
Mopar, orig cubboard no longer there. In it's place is some bad fill-in storage that needs to be replaced with something more useful and eye-pleasing. Luckily the previous owner didnt do the same terrible thing with the nice orig hutch in the dining room. The stove is old-looking to me (ie definitely before my time) but unsure if it qualifies as "vintage" per your expectations. If you find the stove is "vintage" and want it, you're more than welcome to take it. I'll be at the aptmt this Sat afternoon so let me know if you wish to drop by to chk it out the stove.
Posted by: more4less at February 19, 2009 10:07 PM
More4less: I am going to speculate that part of your design dilemma is more related to letting go of the apartment (even temporarily), and less about attracting and retaining good tenants (except to the extent that becoming a landlord is another learning curve and new responsibility). Installing the best and most modern appliance, cabinet, you-name-it, does not guarantee good tenants, nor make you a good landlord, nor assure good landlord-tenant relationships. A well-maintained apartment in a desired location at a reasonable price with a responsive owner are all high on the wish lists of most tenants. Call Montrose (who I don’t even know, though I sound like a shill), and/or call in an agent, and get an informed opinion and encouragement from someone who deals with rental and renovation issues on a daily basis.
Posted by: vinca at February 19, 2009 11:12 PM
Ive rented and own and have many friends that still rent. In this market, you want to have a decent looking kitchen. If the cabinets are in decent shape, you should clean and paint the cabinets white - and do a good job - no need for new ones, but spend the money on new appliances. Inexpensive white ones, though you can get fake stainless steel for not much more. And if the counters look crappy, get a nice-looking laminate. You can charge a few bucks more in rent with the nice kitchen and make up the costs, and you might be able to benefit tax-wise from the purchases. In this market you are competing for tenants, and a lousy kitchen wont help.
Posted by: saminthehood at February 19, 2009 11:23 PM
Weeellll, as a Sainted tenant I have to say it's nice to hear a LL thinking about the tenants, instead of thinking why bohter, they're just tenants?
Have one though regarding the kitchen- if you paint the cabinets white, they will look awful in no time. Cabinets take a lot of wear and tear- can you refinish them, maybe to a light, natural oak? For the same reason I would go for the stainless or even black appliances. I think they look better, more contemporary, and of course they don't show dirt as much. Laminate if its good quality is ok but granite or one of the manmade materials like Corian will stand up a lot longer and look far better. One thing I would love is a tile backsplash.
Bathroom- yours is not that big so a shower door could make it seem claustrophobic. But a simple vessel sink on a cabinet could really update the look. Nice lighting fixtures (and they don't need to be expensive, with a great looking mirror and medicine cabinet. I got a beautiful vessel sink on ebay for about $50.
Other thing in the bathroom- wall shelves
Posted by: bxgrl at February 20, 2009 1:20 AM
Happy tenant = less likely to move = happy landlord. I wont be able to live in the place for quite a long time so I'm willing to renov the place nice (but not budget-buster nice) to attract that "good" tenant and pray they pay rent on time and stays at the place 4ever. I agree that's no guarantee I'll get the good tenant but it wont be because I didn't try. Dream tenant would be someone who likes to do some residual small renov on the place while occupying it. Restore some of the nice prewar details that are painted over or stainly too dark, change out tiles here & there to get it more to the period vs. contemporary (of course would give 'em some credit toward rent for the work). too early in the day to daydream this much.
Posted by: more4less at February 20, 2009 9:16 AM
Happy tenant = less likely to move = happy landlord. I wont be able to live in the place for quite a long time so I'm willing to renov the place nice (but not budget-buster nice) to attract that "good" tenant and pray they pay rent on time and stays at the place 4ever. I agree that's no guarantee I'll get the good tenant but it wont be because I didn't try. Dream tenant would be someone who likes to do some residual small renov on the place while occupying it. Restore some of the nice prewar details that are painted over or stainly too dark, change out tiles here & there to get it more to the period vs. contemporary (of course would give 'em some credit toward rent for the work). too early in the day to daydream this much.
Posted by: more4less at February 20, 2009 9:19 AM
More4less- I think quite a few people would be interested in a deal like that! I think lots of people would love the idea that they can do some restoration work in the place. I know I would (But I could never leave the Great EVLL- where would EVLL be without me?)
By the way- I told MM about Sat. Am sure she will post. If you are looking to use a broker to find tenants let me know- I know a really good guy.
Posted by: bxgrl at February 20, 2009 10:16 AM
been reading up other posts on rentals here and I think it's good to try to mkt it myself via craigslist. I don't want to pay broker fee nor would potential tenants. If I strike out big time, yeah would consider broker then.
Posted by: more4less at February 20, 2009 10:31 AM
more4less, what time are you going to be there? I would be happy to drop by and give my opinion. I live just around the corner.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at February 20, 2009 10:37 AM
Always an opinion, MM! :0
Posted by: bxgrl at February 20, 2009 10:48 AM
Montrose, I got some morning errands to run so maybe around 1:30-2pm. I'll send you an email ~30minutes or more in advance of when I'll show up. Thx
Posted by: more4less at February 20, 2009 11:04 AM
Just wanted to add that black appliances wear better (and look more sleek) than the white ones which tend to yellow on any parts that are plastic. Blech!
Posted by: TownhouseLady at February 20, 2009 2:23 PM
Thanks, more4less! Unfortunately, we're still renting at the moment, so I have nowhere to store a great old stove.
Since bxgrl brought up vessel sinks, I just have to say these are already outdated and not as appropriate to an old place as a pedestal sink or wall hung sink anyway. But it sounds like you know what you're doing.
Have fun!
Posted by: mopar at February 20, 2009 11:46 PM
Ok more4less. Will look for it.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at February 21, 2009 1:30 AM
Mopar, Montrose came by the aptmt. She confirmed the stove is "OLD" but not "Vintage".
Posted by: more4less at February 21, 2009 6:12 PM
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