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January 23, 2009
Soundproofing
Curious what sound isolation efforts are common when rennovating a Brownstone.
I would assume that noise through the ceiling is a big concern
Thanks
Comments
Yes, I am insulating my party walls for sound as well as my floors.
Posted by: vanburenproud at January 23, 2009 12:13 PM
Is there existing plaster or drywall? Or do you have an open joist / stud cavity?
Posted by: Ted White at January 23, 2009 12:32 PM
It's a complete gut
Posted by: vanburenproud at January 23, 2009 1:38 PM
Then you should consider decoupling the new drywall from the existing framing. Much less vibration transfer.
Then insulate with simple fiberglass. R19 in ceiling, R13 in walls.
Posted by: Ted White at January 23, 2009 3:36 PM
Any thoughts on soundproofing a ceiling from percussive noise from upstairs neighbors? No current insulation, just their floor, a foot of dead air and our ceiling. Had two contractors - one was outrageous and the other recommended blowing foam. Help?
Posted by: ralphus999 at January 23, 2009 5:00 PM
Ralphus,
I am about to rip up my new floors (luckily I have not had them stained yet) to put down a product called quiet cork in between the subfloor and a new reinstalled finished floor. It usually goes between the joists and the subfloor. It is by far and away the best for footfall sounds (I did a great deal of research). I am doing this because I want to have a luxury (re:high rental) unit on my garden level and I feel strongly that hearing every step my family (2 kids, lots of teenagers over all the time) takes would drive someone crazy. If you are planning to have a rental unit, it would be well worth it to do this before you finish the renovation. My architect did not advise me well (at all in fact) and even though I have fiberglass for fire rating, it does nothing for the impact sound from above. Blowing foam is not as good as quiet cork!. Just out of curiosity, what did his outrageous bid contain?
Posted by: homey at January 23, 2009 7:03 PM
Sound transfer is primarily about 2 things. Uninterrupted cavity space and direct transfer through a medium.
In floors you have 2 issues. Your flooring sits on subfloor which is tied directly into the joists. There's a cavity between the joists that is typically uninsulated and then drywall for the lower level's ceiling.
I've experienced three options here. One, put down cork under your flooring. there are also mass load vinyl products for this as well that deaden noise. Two, insulate with a dense foam to kill dead spaces - there's a difference in various products by weight here, denser is better. And finally, you can completely decouple your joists for your floor from your downstairs ceiling joists. Much more complicated but boy... it really kills the noise once the cavity is filled.
Posted by: Loub at January 24, 2009 12:49 PM
Thanks folks. I actually have neighbors living above us, so I doubt they'd let me rip up their floors for cork! The contractors have proposed ripping out the existing sheetrock, putting in very dense insulation then using a noise absorbent "sheetrock" to finish the ceiling off. I was assured that this would make my place like a tomb but it comes at a rather steep cost, upwards of $20k for a fairly small place, but it sounds like my best option here. My sanity is at risk!!!
Posted by: ralphus999 at January 24, 2009 5:18 PM
The best place to find the answer is through the recording studio searches.
Posted by: Iknow at January 24, 2009 8:14 PM
http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html
Quietrock is one of the better sound proof wall boards, most of it is fire rated as well.
Posted by: FenFen at January 25, 2009 11:40 AM
when you hang the new ceiling, you will want to hang it on joists that are set between and a couple of inches below the joists for the floor above. This can be achieved through traditional materials such as wood or by hanging a steel grid on which to apply drywall. i've seen drawings of the way to stagger and set wood joists on the 'net. I am sorry, I can't recall the site.
Steve
the tinkers wagon home repairs
347-813-9635
Posted by: thetinkerswagon at January 27, 2009 11:54 AM
if you want it to be done really well i would go the decoupling route. ALso put down some rugs where the kids move around. I'm in the same situation i want the garden floor to be quiet from footsteps. Renovated the garden floor but the ceilings were low so we didn't do much except a layer of sound board which didn't do nearly enough for my tastes.
Going to one day rip up my floor and look into if its possible to decouple from up here because on this parlour floor the ceilings are very high so i don't have to worry about losing a few inches
Posted by: 11211 at January 27, 2009 4:07 PM
Unfortunately, footfall noise is the most difficult to deal with. The direct impact injects a great deal of energy into a small area. This easily overwhelms most isolation systems and products. This is distinctly different from isolating airborne noise. An analogy is surviving a rifle vs. shotgun. Footfall = rifle. A TV set = shotgun.
Thin mats and pads don’t offer much relief at all. Again, very easily overwhelmed by the impact energy of a footstep. Their success is limited to the high frequencies (low energy) and not the more bothersome thumping low frequencies.
Here’s an article with data and graphics that explains the footfall noise problem in detail. http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/index.php?/solutions/neighbor_noise/neighbor_noise_ceilings
I am affiliated with this company, so let me say that for full disclosure.
Given that 95% of the time the problem can only be dealt with from below, generally the best results are obtained when you:
Remove the existing ceiling
Apply mass and damping to the underside of the subfloor
Install simple run of the mill R19 fiberglass insulation
Decouple the new ceiling drywall from the old joists
Install new drywall.
This is a multi-faceted approach that works best, and is a good bang for the buck. Exotic insulation does no better than R19. Lab proven fact. You can assemble your own “soundproof drywall” and have better, far less expensive results. Another lab-proven fact.
If you focus on the fundamentals, you can really improve things a great deal.
Posted by: Ted White at January 29, 2009 4:19 PM
Ralphus,
Just wondering what you ended up doing to your ceiling. I have the same problem and have read nothing but contradicting reports about what works and what doesn't work. Some research is more convincing than others, but most if it is being pushed by someone trying to sell me something. Having a really hard time just finding out what works from people who have actually done it themselves. Also having a hard time finding a contractor who actually has experience with anything other than blowing insulation or putting up drywall.
Thanks.
Posted by: mag3000 at October 8, 2009 1:24 PM
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