Forum
« How to find a good Dr. in bklyn? Extension »
January 26, 2009
Reasonable architect rates
Hi - I'm a resident owner in Cobble Hill and am pricing out some renovation with a couple of recommended architects. Their proposals include total architect's fees of ~20% of the cost of the renovation job. My total budget is ~150K, which makes the architects fees $30K. That seems like a high price given the state of the economy. Is this just what it costs, or should I expect a lower cost, esp. given the current state of the economy.
Thanks
Comments
I agree. That seems quite high. Try Ron Eng at Formactiv. He did plans for my place and was no where near overpriced relative to the quality of work he delivered. You can reach Ron at 212-414-2685. Tell him Chris from Decatur Street referred you.
Good luck.
Posted by: cmontgom at January 26, 2009 2:04 PM
20% of construction is high.
BUT....what are you getting from the architect and how big is the project?
If it's a large project and fairly detailed, but your construction budget is low, it might make sense for them to charge 20%.
Are you getting full design, full construction documents, project management during construction, sign-off's, etc., etc. or are you just getting DOB filing drawings?
12% - 14% is the norm I've seen but the percentage is always adjusted based on the scope of the project.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 26, 2009 3:00 PM
We are in the midst of doing a renovation that is more expensive than yours and agreed to a flat fee for the project, plus an hourly rate for any site visits that he has to make. The fee and total visits so far are way less than 30K and the work includes everything the prior poster mentioned except heavy project management. If you are planning to have the architect at the job supervising very often, I could see the % making sense. We only have him come in every few weeks or so, unless there's an emergency. Johann Grobler is the architect and we are happy.
Posted by: Colonel at January 26, 2009 5:51 PM
What Colonel said.
In addition to 20% being very high, when the fee is a percentage of construction costs there is no incentive to rein in the costs. When you go over the contracted price (and you will), the architect gets a percentage of that too. If you decide to get solid gold switch plates, the architect gets a percentage of that too even though he did no more work than would be done for plastic plates.
Go for a fixed price.
Posted by: jfss at January 26, 2009 7:42 PM
20% seems high to me as well. My office's work focuses mainly on renovations of townhouses, apartments and lofts on a variety of scales and budgets in the NYC area. As mentioned above, the scope of the project can directly effect the fee. That said, most of our single family gut-renovations hover at about 10-12% of construction cost. I usually go with a fixed fee with hourly cont. administration at clients request. If you would be interested in discussing your project further, please contact me below at:
mhm@studiolabdesign.com
http://www.studiolabdesign.com
Thanks,
Matt
Posted by: StudioLAB at January 27, 2009 1:13 AM
Thanks for your responses. The 20% gets me floor plans, electrical, plumbing and verticals, some plan submission (one offers to do this direct, the other requires an expediter) plus weekly onsite consultation, finish (tiles, wood, fixtures, etc.). No project management involved - I'm using a GC that I like to work with who is capable of running the reno himself once the plans are in place - just needs someone to go do for questions.
Posted by: reagan9000 at January 27, 2009 2:02 AM
As stated by the previous responders, 20% is high. When we were picking architects for our project in May the quotes were all in the 7-12% range and the project has a similar spend and deliverables as the one you describe.
We ended up going with a flat fee and hourly for needs above and beyond the ones agreed upon in the deliverables.
FWIW we also are paying a separate expeditor for the filling, etc but the architect is preparing all the filing drawings.
Posted by: pmmtenement at January 27, 2009 12:18 PM
Hmm, we're looking at architects for a large (500,000) project and the numbers come in closer to 20% (15% at lowest). Is that more common for high-end architects?
Posted by: gussy at January 27, 2009 6:46 PM
We currently opened an office in NYC. Residential renovation projects make up the bulk of our work right now. We offer a fixed fee that will not inflate with the unpredictable construction cost. Our services includes all drawings, construction administration, filing and expediting services to obtain all applicable permits for the project. Consultants (structural, mechanical, inspections, etc.) are invoiced for your approval prior to any work being done. Feel free to contact our office at info@mdesignworkshop.com if you would like to further discuss your project.
Thank you.
Posted by: parker at January 28, 2009 4:01 PM
The architect should have nothing to do with the cost of the renovation. It should be a fixed price. All you really need is floor plans unless you want an interior designer. Don't let him bullshit you about plumbing mechanical etc. For DOB purposes all you need is riser diagrams. Mechanical you can choose to do whatever you want - central air, baseboards etc.
You can wrap this up for 4 - 5k (Including expediting). If you want me to set you up let me know.
Posted by: Ethan at January 28, 2009 5:51 PM
However, beware of people that charge considerably lower than most. The price is usually a reflection of their experience, quality of work, professionalism, knowledge of the business, and proper grammar.... or in Ethan's case, lack there of.... all of the above.
Posted by: guest75 at January 28, 2009 6:26 PM
This posting is for guest 75.
If you truley understand this world - arhc., engr., dob, mta, dep etc. you should know what the real cost of getting things done.
Lets do the math - New Building maybe 50 hours draft work (and i am being generous) X 75 per hour = 3750 USD.
In this case it is not even a new building.
So guest 75 why should anyone pay more ? And don't tell me that they need more than 50 hours.
Posted by: Ethan at January 28, 2009 6:46 PM
ethan, as an architect who has been able to sustain a productive and successful firm for over a decade.... i do understand this "world" as you would refer to it. we do not offer just drawings. we provide a service that caters specifically to each client which goes beyond just providing drawings. clearly you have no need nor are well versed in the new technologies and materials that have been constantly advancing this "world". we go above and beyond for our clients to provide a product that makes a difference.
with that said continuing a conversation with an "entreprneur" such as yourself would be a waste of time.
Posted by: guest75 at January 28, 2009 9:41 PM
i apologize that was uncalled for.
Posted by: guest75 at January 28, 2009 9:46 PM
I'm with guest75. Good architects aren't just draftsmen working by the hour, and not many architects are getting rich doing small residential projects.
It largely depends on the level of design and service you are looking for. If you hire a design-oriented architect, they will likely present you with options on layout, finishes, etc. They will spend a great deal of time developing the design, which may include renderings or models. These types will obviously be more expensive, and hopefully the end product will be better. (if you're looking for design.)
If you know exactly what you want, and it's a simple renovation, then you should find someone with a lower fee.
Many architects tie themselves to a % of construction cost as a means to protect themselves. If a client says "I have $500K for gut-renovating a 2000 SF house," architects can project how much work that will be and how much time that will take. If the budget is 1.5 million, client expectations will be different, many more specific details will need to be designed and drawn, thus the fee goes up.
Many architects will lock into a fixed fee, but the difficulty is that if the client decides to double the budget and add a bunch of detail - the architect suddenly has tons of additional work and no additional fee.
Posted by: squaredrive at January 29, 2009 11:59 AM
I am an Architect with a small practice. I have much NYC townhouse experience, as well as 2nd homes in the Hamptons and northern NY. I have also worked in a few name offices.
That said. I usually charge between 10 and 15 % of construction depending on the scope of work, size of project, simplicity, complexity etc. Every project is different and I have low overhead, that's a key factor.
I can also work hourly not to exceed a certain amount.
If you wish to discuss further with me you can reach me at ra@andradearchitecture.com...
(fyi-my website is under construction-landing page should appear soon)...
I can email photos of work..
Posted by: lucara926 at March 25, 2009 1:52 PM
Typically I charge 10% depending on the level of detail and oversight required could be plus slighly or or less.
Kaiserarchitects.com
Posted by: alfred kaiser ra at April 8, 2009 12:07 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.