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January 9, 2009
Building a 2nd room (frm a jr-4)
Does anyone know what the law is on building a 2nd bedroom out of a Junior 4 apt (just puttin gup two non-load bearing walls of drywall)? My Co-op is giving me a hard time about permits, etc. Seems a little like overkill. And will turn a $5k project into a $20k one.
Any thoughts or advice?
Comments
Do both rooms keep their windows, and minimum size to be considered dwelling rooms, or are you making a "storage" room? You may have less trouble if you are essentially just making a big walk in closet.
Posted by: corolla at January 9, 2009 4:53 PM
I agree that it seems like overkill, however, technically I believe that they have the law on their side. As I understand it, by the book the DOB requires permits for any work which could potentially alter egress, bedroom light, ventilation, occupancy, etc. Obviously people do this all the time w/o permits, but if your coop board is insistent, not sure what can be done.
It actually shouldn't cost more than a couple g's at most to get a drawing and permits if it's just 2 walls. Def not 15K.
Posted by: squaredrive at January 9, 2009 5:09 PM
When putting up a wall, any size wall, you technically need to file with the DOB.
Co-op boards play by the rules. They will require you to file the job which involves hiring an architect that will create plans and file at the DOB, get a permit and finally sign off the job. You'll need a licensed contractor with insurance. Co-ops may ask YOU to take out additional insurance during construction.
Posted by: bayridgegirl at January 9, 2009 5:28 PM
Thanks for the help. The room will have windows, will meet space requirements, etc. The contractor is insured and has drawings.
Hopefully the board will let me get away without needing the permits. The difference between the non-permit and permit costs included the cost of getting an architect to sign off on them (but I'm glad to hear I was so far off.. that quote was from a friend who had some similar work done... I guess he didn't know what he was talking about).
Posted by: AKNYC at January 9, 2009 6:00 PM
I believe one of the reasons permits would be insisted on is cause of the situation with the firemen who died while fighting a fire in a building that had been chopped up into little cubicles. The landlord of the building and the tenant who created all the cubicles are both on trial for this. Granted, that was an exceptional event, but it indicates why you'll need a permit.
Posted by: Iris at January 12, 2009 8:54 AM
Even if your coop board let's it slide (and they should not) and nobody ever knows, if there's a problem, like a fire, after the fact you will be criminally liable. Imagine your picture in the NY Post as they take you to the police station under arrest... It's a drag, but even small changes in your home require permits.
Posted by: lifeofreilly at January 12, 2009 5:00 PM
There must be thousands of "converted" 2-bedrooms all over the city. I know so many people whop built walls in their living rooms for the new kid, roommate, office etc. I havent heard of anyone asking permission- though granted it is illegal.
Posted by: saminthehood at January 12, 2009 5:14 PM
I believe there was a full page ad in last week's New York Times magazine section by a company was that was selling very attractive and well built sliding walls (or whatever you call them). Don't know what they cost, but it will be a lot less aggravating than what you are planning to do. Screw the coop board.
Posted by: Suburbandude at January 12, 2009 5:41 PM
Just a couple of other thoughts. Read your proprietary lease. Altering your space without Board approval will most likely be a violation of that, in which case the Board could make you remove the walls. Also, probably the biggest reason why the Board will insist on permits is so that there won't be future disputes with other tenants who want to make alterations.
Posted by: Iris at January 13, 2009 9:10 AM
The bottom line: you change the room count or secondary means of egress (aka the fire escape access): that is an Alteration Type 1 and you MUST get a permit. The problem is not how you intend to use the space, but what happens after you sell and others turn your open rooms into SRO's. And then what happens when there's a fire and fire fighters become trapped and are forced to jump from windows when they are blocked from the fire escape as happened in the Bronx a few years ago? Think people. Think. FDNY and DOB are aggressively prosecuting this at this time.
Posted by: Low_Talker338 at January 13, 2009 9:37 AM
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