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December 17, 2008
Yikes..Could this Heating Bill be Right?
We moved into a large victorian house last spring, so this is our first winter in the house. We were expecting to pay a ton for winter heating, but we just got our National Grid bill for Nov...it's over $700.
We replaced the boiler last month, so I can't imagine that eating up gas. We also keep the thermostat at 68 degrees...often to the dismay of our office tenants on the first floor.
Is this what others pay for heat in the winter? Or are we out of whack? Granted, the house is big (4000 square feet), three stories, detached, and drafty. But $700/month??? I shudder to think of what Dec and Jan will look like. Tell me it ain't so...
Comments
I've been looking in the neighborhood, and have been figuring in costs of 3-5k per winter.
That works out...although low oil/gas prices should be lowering heating prices too.
Posted by: slick at December 18, 2008 4:44 AM
For big, detatched and drafty that sounds almost low...
Posted by: vanburenproud at December 18, 2008 7:19 AM
Sorry, it is so, Yes, $700. per month sounds right. You had best start thinking about insulation. Start with your windows. If you have drafty windows, buy a bunch of plastic window kits to stop the draft now. Then work on your entrance doors with weather stripping. Walk around your house and seal every draft you can find.
Posted by: Rick at December 18, 2008 7:58 AM
You really have to check whether either your previous or current reading is actual or estimated. Sometimes they underestimate and then there's a big catch up.
Posted by: jawbreaker at December 18, 2008 8:18 AM
Insulate the space above the ceiling on the top floor and the roof. Call Federal Conservation. Look under the insulation posts for the number
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at December 18, 2008 8:23 AM
New boiler. Is it a steam or hot water system?
Sometimes there are things that can be done to the boiler and piping to increase efficiency.
Posted by: Master Plvmber at December 18, 2008 8:35 AM
My wife wanted a Victorian frame house and I wanted a row house. Beautiful as the former are, posts like this make me glad we bought the later. My Nov. gas bill was $198.41 for a three story 2800 sq. ft. house.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 18, 2008 9:50 AM
we pay 700 for a two family house plus two renters. yes it is right
Posted by: karo25 at December 18, 2008 11:26 AM
Yes, it seems high for November. Expect the months of January and February each to be 3 times as high as November.
Insulation, weather stripping and lowering the evening setting should help cut the bill to a more reasonable amount. With bills like that any insulation project will have a much quicker payback than is typical.
Posted by: yaakovdoe at December 18, 2008 1:16 PM
Thanks for the input. Especially the point about catch up: indeed, the bill does seem to be higher because of a low estimated reading last month. But, still...
My post shouldn't dissuade folks from moving into these houses. They are awesome in so many other ways. And we save a lot on AC in the summer, with four exposures and lots of windows. Something for something, I guess
Posted by: lah at December 18, 2008 1:34 PM
I have a big drafty old house. I can run $1500 a month for heating on a bad month and I keep my thermostat at 63.
Posted by: Ozymandius at December 18, 2008 2:05 PM
I'd love to have a freestanding house. I'm weary of sharing walls with people. But it does help with heating costs to have an attached house. I worry less if we're away for a weekend or longer and the boiler goes out. We closed on our house in Winter and it sat empty weeks without heat but still never got so cold it was uncomfortable or made pipes burst. The house stayed a temp in the high 50's and low 60's.
To the insulation advice I'd add this: Don't get too minimalist or flimsy with your window treatments. You have you have to do as the Victorians who built your house did -- put up heavy lined or even thermal drapes on windows in Winter. Open the drapes on sunny days. Then keep drapes closed when it's cloudy out or nighttime. Doing this really makes a big difference. Added bonus, they cut street noise outside at night. If you're on a budget and can't do custom drapes yet, JC Penney has decent thermal drapes online. I got some textured ones with a modern designer look for one room and they look fine.
Posted by: traditionalmod at December 18, 2008 2:07 PM
Lah...I have a victorian frame as well. The $700 bill sounds about right. actually its a bit low if the house is 4000 sq feet and drafty (my house is 2000 sq feet and my bill was 400).
as mentioned earlier, expect the bill to be much higher in the coming months. last feb. I paid $1200
Posted by: troll at December 18, 2008 2:08 PM
I do levelized billing and pay 300 dollars a month - last year I got a little money back, but considering what a cold November we had, I think that sounds on the money. And nat gas has been relatively cheap lately.
Posted by: donatella at December 18, 2008 2:10 PM
Oh, I neglected to say I have a 4 story attached brownstone. I do not have the most efficient situation though. My upstairs tenant is cold and I need to figure out how to give her enough heat without creating a sauna situation for myself. I think her windows need caulking and the skylights are a disaster re drafts. I agree with tradionalmod on the drapes thing, which I have not done. I think that would really create warmth (and quiet). I have to see what I can do in that department.
Posted by: donatella at December 18, 2008 2:15 PM
Do try the drapes, Donatella. Our bedroom in our old coop had an old drafty window in it that made our bedroom freeze, plus we had inadequate heating on top of it. I had a very heavy chenille tapestry lined drape made and it was pretty amazing how much warmer that room became. When I'd put my hand behind the closed drape there would be a pocket of frigid air behind it.
Posted by: traditionalmod at December 18, 2008 2:43 PM
For month of Nov, mine is $204 for a 1700sq ft semi-attached brick rowhouse. Covering up the drafty windows and basement door with plastic really helped. The house feels warmer than last year with a lower thermostat setting!
I program the thermostat to:
weekday 6am @ 68, 9am @ 55, 6:30pm @ 68, 12am @ 67
weekend 7am @ 68, 12pm @ 55, 6pm @ 68, 12am @ 68
Sometimes, I would bum it up to 69 if it's not warm enough.
Posted by: zuffy at December 18, 2008 2:56 PM
It is possible. However -- we also moved into a new place (apt) and National Grid charged us $800 for one month of heat.
Long story short, they finally admitted they hadn't been out to read the meter in over three years.
Then to make another long story short, turned out the boiler had been replaced just when we moved in. Our meter outside was running twice the meter inside.
The problem was supposedly resolved, but we just got an estimated bill for $300 for one month. (We keep the thermostat at 68.)
So I'm gonna get back on the phone...
Posted by: mopar at December 18, 2008 3:31 PM
We just got a $500+ gas bill from National Grid on our 3 family brownstone which is a bit smaller than yours, square footage wise and also connected. So yours sounds like it is within reason compared to ours. Of course...we also freaked and are scared of what we'll see in the colder months. We're doing renovations right now, which doesn't help.
Posted by: Colonel at December 18, 2008 3:38 PM
I had National Grid install the meters that they read from the street last Fall. When I got the November bill it seemed a little high but then the January bill was $1200. I called and they said there was NO WAY there could be an error. So then I happened to be in the basement and took a meter reading. I checked it against the bill and it was way off - to the tune of over $800.
When I called back another person said those street readings are sometimes off, so my advice is to check.
Posted by: dragoo at December 18, 2008 3:39 PM
wow i never realized how much heat costs before! it's like higher than some peoples rents!
*rob*
Posted by: PitbullNYC at December 18, 2008 4:02 PM
Yes, indeedy, Pitbull, and on top of that you have to pay for electric and water in the utilities dept.
Posted by: donatella at December 18, 2008 4:41 PM
Once again: I think brownstoner should let us make home profiles that are anonymously attached to our login profiles, where we can say how many families, how many square feet and what we pay for utilities.
I find these to be some of the most useful threads and it would be really interesting to be able to see that most people with a three family brownstone are using half as much water as me. For instance.
Not that I have a house. Sigh.
Posted by: amanda at December 18, 2008 4:52 PM
We live in one of those big freestanding wood shingle Victorians, and have only begun dealing with heat loss. Last winter we just lived in it, and paid around $650/month for winter heat. This year I put plastic film on ALL the windows and we pay more like $400/month.
We also just had a free energy audit by National Grid, which lasted about 3 hours. The inspector went through the entire house and had a long list of suggestions. Then we had a conservation specialist recommended by National Grid come out and after another inspection and a blower test, he worked up a detailed quote to perform the improvements. It includes replacing around 30 windows--and we are landmarked, so this will be fun! (Tongue in cheek). Plus doing basic insulating, sealing against wind and heat loss, etc etc. After the work is done, they estimate we'll save about $250/month on our current energy costs. Worth it to me! Anyway, all of this work is eligible for a 1% loan through some NY State program. So I would say to all of you out there--take advantage of this. It's a complex process, but if you can stomach the paperwork, the low-interest loan makes it feasible since the energy savings will offset the cost of the loan. I'll let you know how it all works out. The process apparently takes about a year from first audit to final loan approval and work completion. OH, the phone number is 877-NY-SMART. I just happen to have the file on my desk, I have nothing at all to do with them other than being a homeowner who believes this may be exactly what we all need. We want to be more green, save cash, waste less, bla bla...
Posted by: tinmouse10 at December 18, 2008 6:32 PM
Wow, this is so, so helpful...definitely one of the most useful exchanges I've had here. I like Amanda's idea of posting this stuff. I'm also in shock at the variation here. It's like salaries: the more info we have, the more we can do to change things (in this case, make adjustments to our houses, check with National Grid...).
Posted by: lah at December 18, 2008 9:07 PM
couple of points.
first the bill does seem high. I have a three family Brownstone and Both my november and december bills that include the boiler, the tenants stove, hot water and my gas dryer were under $300 per month....(the november bill was slightly over estimated and corrected in December
also if you have a three family or more you are obligated to keep the temp 68 or above from 6am to 10 pm and 55 from 10 pm to 6 am....
Posted by: smeyer418 at December 18, 2008 10:49 PM
Unfortunately, that bill is right. But, once your bill is $0, get on the level payment plan. That way you won't faint when you open your bills in the winter.
Posted by: i_heart_brooklyn at December 19, 2008 12:08 AM
can't say enough about the level plan. it really takes the sting out of those massive winter bills and really helps figure out your overall budget. We do it for Con Ed bills, too.
Posted by: kcf at December 19, 2008 10:33 AM
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