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December 17, 2008
Soundproofing finished basement
Hello
We are the proverbial "loud neighbors with teenaged drummer" and we need to sound proof our finished basement.
The walls are the original masonry foundation covered, on one side, with a layer of sheetrock, and on the other with mirrors (all our gym equipment is down there too). There are pipes sticking out in a couple of places, and there are several sliding door closetsincluding the access closet for the electric meter. The ceiling is dropped sheetrock.
Basically seems like a soundproofing nightmare. Is there a way to do this without a) spending a million bucks and b) not ruining the look of the room?
Thanks!
Comments
Well, there's this stuff called "Quiet Rock" (http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html). It looks, weighs, and cuts the same as regular drywall, but it's actually equivalent to 8 sheets of the normal stuff (you have to get the 5/8" board [model 525]). You could go with the 510 1/2" if you want to install it over existing drywall. If you're doing a full gut reno, I would do a staggered stud construction with quietrock 525 and spray foam insulation (it has an R value of at least 46, which deadens sound immensely). Depending on your budget, there are a few way you can go. Using spray foam insulation alone will do a pretty good job, or using quiet rock with regular fiberglass insulation will also do pretty well. But, if you want to make sure that not a peep will get through, you're going to have to spend some money somewhere.
Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 8:55 AM
Call Alan Fierstein (stone?) of Acoustilog. He's not cheap, but a single consultation may get you where you want to go. How you hang the ceiling is as important as what you use, and there are tricks for dealing with the pipes.
Posted by: slopefarm at December 17, 2008 9:18 AM
Awesome. Thank you.
Any suggestions regarding doors? Thankfully, no windows to deal with.
Posted by: dougj99 at December 17, 2008 9:26 AM
Metal exterior door, prehung. Not perfect, but it works pretty well.
Posted by: BrooklynBear at December 17, 2008 9:30 AM
One thing I learned from Fierstein is that you can suspend a ceiling on small springs that help absorb vibration. Just make sure you do a really good job taping the edges and if you put one layer of rock over another, make sure the seams do not line up with each other. Maybe there is a comparable method for the walls.
Posted by: slopefarm at December 17, 2008 9:36 AM
Although it's counter-intuitive, putting the instruments on a well-constructed, floating platform is also helpful. Less contact w/ the floor lessens the sympathetic vibrations that wend their way up the walls.
Posted by: Arkady at December 17, 2008 10:05 AM
all of the above are great suggestions. As a drummer for 20 years in the city, you can also do a lot to quiet down the instrument itself:
1) heavy blanket over bass drum
2) cymbal sleeves that cut out the resonance and volume of cymbals
3) rubber pads that cover the drum heads ( in a sense creating practice pad drumkit)
4)other than that, for total isolation you would need to create a "floating" room inside the basement ( about 4K in my experience).
good luck, but please don't discourage the little fella"
Posted by: owner12 at December 17, 2008 1:06 PM
Arkady: Could you explain what a floating platform is?
Posted by: parkslopemom at December 17, 2008 2:20 PM
take a look here for a DIY soundproofing solution for walls
http://www.instructables.com/id/Soundproof-Your-Garage-Walls-Using-My-Cleat-Meth/
Posted by: arches at December 17, 2008 2:21 PM
Platform made of studs and plywood (like a low stage) that sits on rubber matt or special rubber pads made for this purpose. It cuts down on impact and vibration noise by decoupling sound source from floor. You can make the platform just for the drums if you want. you will still have ambient room noise to contend with though.
The suggestion of pads is a great one, or go even one further and you can purchase a good electronic drum kit, then your kid can play drums through headphones with no room noise. If he/she had electronic drum kit and wanted to jam with friends they could all plug into a mixer and listen in headphones and there would be no room noise.
Posted by: werner at December 17, 2008 6:26 PM
My 12-year old son is a drummer and my 10-year old daughter plays guitar, with amp. Our old apartment was masonry. We worried when the neighbors had a baby, but they never, never, ever heard my kids play. That said, I did undertake many of the above suggestions, with great success.
Any good music supply shop (we prefer Drummers World on 46th Street (http://www.drummersworld.com/dsp/main.php) is a great resource. We bought a set of mutes, which are simply sheets of rubber that are pre-cut to the size of the drum heads. His kit is kick-bass, snare, floor tom, and 2 rack toms. The mutes cut down the vibration and sound by about 90-95%!
I also built a set of risers. I used 6" length of 4x4 for legs and 3/4" plywood for the base. I attached rigid foam insulation on the underside of the plywood to absorb some vibration before attaching the legs. I covered the top surface of the plywood with carpet padding and then with carpeting. To make it sick, I strung blue rope light on the underside. I made this in 2 parts to make it easier to move if he ever wants to take it to gig somewhere, and to simply make it easier to move if I ever need to do so. The whole thing sits on a rubber pad. The elevation of the risers makes him feel like a proper rocker, and it definitely reduces the volume. If you want, I am happy to tell you more about the construction. It was a fun, easy project.
We bought a house this summer in Boerum Hill, frame construction. My stars, is it ever loud. The masonry was the key to the quiet. Even with all my efforts, when he practices without the mutes, the walls shake. But the riser helps a lot. And he loves to practice. We enforce an earplugs at all times policy, so we let him practice with no mutes sometimes.
Posted by: r1b2 at December 17, 2008 7:36 PM
Is it legal to use spray foam insulation in brownstone ceilings and walls?
I know it's commonly used in modern houses, but I've never seen anybody spray it in 100 year old brick and beam buildings.
We always use insulation rolls that are much lower R value than 46 because their cheap and easy to use, but I'm not sure they do much.
I've used Quiet Rock several times with suspended ceilings and it does seem to work pretty well, but in general even using regular 5/8th inch sheet rock with a properly suspended ceiling blocks out most noises.
Quiet Rock is also more difficult to cut than regular sheet rock and retails for around $100 a piece, which isn't cheap.
Posted by: IronBalls at December 17, 2008 9:22 PM
Hi all,
Thanks for all the suggestions.
We got him those drum pads a long time ago, but he refuses to use them. Likewise, any mention of electronic drums or anything involving headphones seems to probably not be a solution (as is the ever-popular off site rehearsal studio).
He's the kind of kid that if something is too much of a pain he will just stop doing it.
So we have had a couple people in to look at the basement. It is a frame house, by the way. While I think the drum platform and a lot of stuff hung to dampen the sound are good ideas that may help, we also have a narrow staircase with a crappy hollow core door which is acting like the bell on a trombone. It's really loud. All roads seem to be leading to walling off part of the basement so we can cover the walls and ceiling of that area with quiet rock, or insulation, or whatever- the "floating room". But, phew, $$$$$$, and in a recession, no less!
Posted by: dougj99 at December 18, 2008 2:47 PM
Quiet Rock is too expensive. You are much better off putting your money into quiet glue. Put up another layer of sheet rock over the existing one with the glue in between. also dense pack the wall with cellulose insulation between the studs. put some holes in the wall and simply pack it in as hard as you can. the patch up the wall. this is the most effective and best bang for you buck, or least bang for your buck acoustically speaking. spray foam is a waste of time. no sound attenuation in it.
Posted by: gennaro at December 21, 2008 8:31 PM
I agree with Gennaro that the Quiet Rock is a bit expensive. You can assemble your own panels with standard drywall and glue.
Green Glue has 4x the damping capacity of Quiet Glue. Independently tested.
The resulting wall is heavier and more damped. Two key factors.
I'd suggest not packing the insulation. Lab data shows a light, low density (normal) pack is best. Too packed and the insulation will actually act as a conductor.
Posted by: Ted White at January 23, 2009 4:39 PM
I want to soundproof my basement for drum practice.
I tried a site that said it would create a full quote and install guide from its automaed analysis system : http://soundproofingforum.co.uk/
But the system does not have options for drum practice room, anyone have any help as to what options I should use?
Posted by: peteboy at February 13, 2009 11:49 AM
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